slopecombat
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| posted on 5/6/07 at 10:57 PM |
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Short mid engine
I'm thinking about this distribution for a very short and light mid engine.
The engine could rotate 90º and use a diff.
What do you think about this ?
Modesto
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worX
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| posted on 5/6/07 at 11:06 PM |
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wouldn't it be a touch on the wide side?
What have you worked out will it measure?
Steve
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iank
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| posted on 5/6/07 at 11:15 PM |
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I suspect it would be rather unstable if built that short and wide. It would turn corners very quickly if you could control it though.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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slopecombat
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| posted on 5/6/07 at 11:26 PM |
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I'm thinking in aprox:
Width 1,70m (depends on the Seat-engine-seat requirements) and Length 2,5m.
Modesto.
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worX
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| posted on 5/6/07 at 11:53 PM |
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just to give you a comparison, my car (I am guessing as I can't bo bothered to measure it right now!) is 1500mm wide and 3000mm in length...
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Werner Van Loock
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 05:45 AM |
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it actually kind of exists:
smartuki
But they put the engine on the passengers seat.
http://www.clubstylus.be
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RazMan
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 07:08 AM |
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I seriously doubt that you will find any transverse engine & transaxle that will fit between two seats and still be within realistic limits. Have
a look in my archive for engine bay pics - my car is 1700mm wide and the engine (albeit a V6) takes up a fair proportion of that and the driveshafts
are fairly short.
Try a scale drawing with a known engine and real sized passengers (with elbows  ) and I suspect you will have to think again, maybe with a narrow V
engine and 'north south' transaxle but then the exhaust system would be a problem (and rather warm for the driver too )
How about a Ducati twin and a chain drive diff? About as narrow as you can get
[Edited on 6-6-07 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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niceperson709
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 07:31 AM |
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surely this would be a layout where you could use a narrower engine like a Vtwin say from suzuki or aprilla?
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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akumabito
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 12:14 PM |
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Yamaha V-Max V4, coupled directly to a Freelander diff.
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JonBowden
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 01:58 PM |
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Could you put a narrow bike engine where the gearbox of a normal seven is (ie beside your legs) with a propshaft going to a normal seven rear end?
Jon
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suparuss
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 04:42 PM |
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a few points- driving a car is going to be extremely uncomfortable with the engine that close to you. you will have a great big bulge right next to
you so you wont be able to move your arm so gear change will be an issue. being sat right out at the sides like that with the front wheels where they
are means your feet will restrict the steering of the wheels unless you are sat at an angle. there are other things im sure.
why bother though? there are plenty of tranverse front engine/front wheel drive engines that will fit behind those seats.
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StevieB
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 04:43 PM |
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Check out the Fisher Menace - mid mounted 'blade engine that sits on the passenger side quite far forward (the passenger seat is shifted further
forward by a foot or so). Achieves a similar result while keeping the width of the car reasonable.
Follow the link and go to the photo archive for the Menace
Linky
[Edited on 6/6/07 by StevieB]
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gttman
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 09:01 PM |
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That kind of wheelbase ratio would be not nice to drive IMO... anyone else here driven a smart car, ok on the twisties (but not quick) and horrific at
70mph on the motorway.
you'd also have heat as well a packaging issues to deal with.
Andygtt
Please redefine your limits
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slopecombat
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 09:16 PM |
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The first idea was with a V bike engine and not so wide.
What could be a good ratio Length/Wide for a "Short car" ?
Modesto
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iank
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 09:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by slopecombat
The first idea was with a V bike engine and not so wide.
What could be a good ratio Length/Wide for a "Short car" ?
Modesto
Depends what you want to do with it (it's the wheelbase/wheeltrack that make the difference for handling characteristics rather than the overall
length/width)
I'd suggest reading 'Race and Rally Car source book' by Allan Staniforth. He's got a table of wheelbase/wheeltrack
ratio's for different racing cars, as well as lots of handy information for someone designing their own car.
His ratios go from 1.155 for a 100cc Kart up to 1.922.
Obviously a top fuel rail dragster has an large ratio (I'd guess > 3) for stability in a straight line, but it will turn like an oil tanker.
A Kart with a low number turns corners very quickly, but is very nervous and darts around on long straights which it tiring on a anything but a quick
blast.
A Caterham 7 is 1.717 for reference (with an original lotus being 1.600)
Of course handling is a lot more complicated than that as the weight distribution around the car has a bigger influence than the ratio, but the kart
vs dragster gives you an idea of what it'll be like naturally.
FWIW 1.62 makes for the prettiest car apparently due to it being the 'golden ratio' used by the ancient Greeks for their buildings IIRC.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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slopecombat
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| posted on 6/6/07 at 10:02 PM |
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I'm tinking in somethig greater than ...
... and close to a street versión of this kind of car (DP1):
... so I have to put the engine between the seats.
Modesto
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gttman
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| posted on 8/6/07 at 07:57 AM |
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examples for wheelbase to track ratio's.
lotus exige 1.53
Ferrari Enzo 1.58
Mclaren F1 1.85
Bugatti Veyron 1.92
Pegani Zonda 1.60
Carrera GT 1.83
My GTT 1.58
Andygtt
Please redefine your limits
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geoffreyh
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 01:22 PM |
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If you want to see how a haya engined smart sounds and drives like, have a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I96S9vygn1o
A smart is almost as wide as it is long.
[Edited on 9/6/07 by geoffreyh]
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slopecombat
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 10:54 PM |
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I think I that I have reached the limit:
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RazMan
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 11:08 PM |
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Well at least it will have a good power to weight ratio - steering might be wanting though
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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DIY Si
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 11:41 PM |
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My mini, when finished should have a ratio of roughly 1.61, being a bit wider than a standard mini, which is 1.68. That's with a 2.5 V6 (the
same as Razman) in the boot, and the track being 2.25" wider than the original, as I think I'm going to need a bit extra.
A car wide enough to put an engine between will be relaitvely wide, so "should' be a bit longer too. As said though, if you can keep it
under control it should corner well, but may be a bit questionable to higher straight line speeds, just as a kart is. 1.5-1.7 should be a good area to
aim for.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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