Delinquent
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 10:12 AM |
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Anti Roll Bar specialists?
After spotting this ARB system while searching for info on monocoques, I came across this setup on the Porsche GT...
despite the wide array of cars I've worked on I've never come across anything similar, but it would solve 101 problems I have if I could
use similar - anyone know of a car with the same system of levers, or an ARB specialist that may be able to assist?
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mookaloid
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 10:33 AM |
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If you could get a look at a Metro 6R4 they have an adjustable version at the front which uses a rotatable blade to adjust the stiffness.
Cheers
mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Delinquent
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 12:42 PM |
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cheers, will have a look at both.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 01:22 PM |
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Its just a perfectly normal anti-roll bar (i.e. torsion bar) loaded though pushrods from the bellcranks.
Think laterally, as long as you load the bar in roll, and it resists that movement, then its an anti-roll bar.
Gets interesting if you use a monoshock and mount it on a centra flange on a sliding bush arrangement and spring it either side of the flange.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Delinquent
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 01:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Its just a perfectly normal anti-roll bar (i.e. torsion bar) loaded though pushrods from the bellcranks.
Think laterally, as long as you load the bar in roll, and it resists that movement, then its an anti-roll bar.
Gets interesting if you use a monoshock and mount it on a centra flange on a sliding bush arrangement and spring it either side of the flange.
Which do you reckon is giving the "spring", the horizontal bar in the middle, or the levers attached to it? Looks like a splined / keyed
bar in the middle with 2 levers attached.
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Alan B
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 02:12 PM |
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The idea is for the horizontal bar/tube to provide the torsion spring element, but I can see why you would ask the question as the arms do look a
little flexible.....perhaps they are intended to flex somewhat...in fact they'd be bound to really.......
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Delinquent
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 02:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
The idea is for the horizontal bar/tube to provide the torsion spring element, but I can see why you would ask the question as the arms do look a
little flexible.....perhaps they are intended to flex somewhat...in fact they'd be bound to really.......
exactly my thought - the tapered nature also suggested to me the possibility of progressive rate.
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3GEComponents
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 02:32 PM |
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This is the one i'd like to know how it works.
 
Rescued attachment B2K-40_Rear.jpeg
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JB
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 06:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jroberts
This is the one i'd like to know how it works.
This is real neat because you can change the "ARB" stiffness so easily. The springs it uses are known as die springs and they are
available in so many different rates for cheap because they are industrial instead of race car.
What happens is in bump or droop both links move together and the bar rotates. When you have roll one link must effectivley shorten and th other
lengthen so the "bar" moves to the side compressing the springs. You could choose to have different roll rates in left and right corners
if you wish.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 06:05 PM |
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Oooh, that's quite techy that set up is! Is there any real point in such a set up for a road car at all?
Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 06:35 PM |
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It also looks as though it has dampers in the setup up because, of course, an anti-roll bar is an generally an undamped spring.
[Edited on 16/10/07 by andylancaster3000]
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3GEComponents
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| posted on 17/10/07 at 12:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JB
quote:
Originally posted by jroberts
This is the one i'd like to know how it works.
This is real neat because you can change the "ARB" stiffness so easily. The springs it uses are known as die springs and they are
available in so many different rates for cheap because they are industrial instead of race car.
What happens is in bump or droop both links move together and the bar rotates. When you have roll one link must effectivley shorten and th other
lengthen so the "bar" moves to the side compressing the springs. You could choose to have different roll rates in left and right corners
if you wish.
Thanks JB, logical when you look at it and such a good idea.
Wish i'd thought of it! 
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NS Dev
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| posted on 17/10/07 at 12:44 PM |
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..........and read what I said about monoshocks, same setup, different layout.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Delinquent
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| posted on 17/10/07 at 01:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY SiIs there any real point in such a set up for a road car at all?
Of course there is! When you go to a car meet and pop the bonnet open everyone gasps and mentions what a techie ARB system you have. Well it's
certainly enough to make me think about it
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britishtrident
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| posted on 19/10/07 at 01:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Delinquent
quote:
Originally posted by DIY SiIs there any real point in such a set up for a road car at all?
Of course there is! When you go to a car meet and pop the bonnet open everyone gasps and mentions what a techie ARB system you have. Well it's
certainly enough to make me think about it
But it won't impress a lot of people
F.F.F. & K.I.S.S -- Are the keys to good design.
Form Folows Function & Keep It Simple (Stupid)
[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Delinquent
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| posted on 19/10/07 at 01:10 PM |
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irony is key to my sense of humour as well 
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gttman
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| posted on 19/10/07 at 02:27 PM |
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you will really need to know what you are doing to use that design......
I'm not even fitting anti roll bars to mine for the initial design but then as the car is so wide the roll angles will be smaller anyhow.
Andygtt
Please redefine your limits
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Delinquent
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| posted on 19/10/07 at 02:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gttman
you will really need to know what you are doing to use that design......
I'm not even fitting anti roll bars to mine for the initial design but then as the car is so wide the roll angles will be smaller anyhow.
Indeed, more research but it's going to be necessary - as you know the Citroen system I'm looking at isn't exactly friendly in
roll, and it relies on the rollbar to operate the height regulator. I'd have preferred something a bit simpler but it's getting down to
packaging now.
Still, all relatively simple lever moments to calculate!
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gttman
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| posted on 19/10/07 at 04:57 PM |
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Forgot to mention the Mosler has a similar roll bar on both the front and the rear.
I have some pics of it on the other PC but can't post any up until I finish with the internet connection and can plug it in.... actually I might
email them as I don't have the hosted.
Andygtt
Please redefine your limits
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Delinquent
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| posted on 19/10/07 at 05:30 PM |
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email would be great, cheers Andy.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 19/10/07 at 07:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Delinquent
irony is key to my sense of humour as well
I prefer aluminiumy to keep the weight down
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