donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:35 AM |
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Electric 7 !?!
Ok here's a good one for you.
A friend of mine just told me that he will soon be building an ELECTRIC Porsche 356 replica for a customer of his. The customer has found the motor
and speed controller and recons it will give 100miles on a single charge with the amount of batteries he intends to use, also 0-60 time will be pretty
rapid too, maybe not as quick as the electric Ariel Atom but good never the less.
MK have built an electric Indy but i have never heard of an electric Locost. It has got me thinking that it could be interesting to build such a
vehicle as an alternative to the same old cars.
Anyone have links or ideas on where to get items like motors etc. Also anyone now how you stand on SVA-ing such a vehicle? Would road tax be cheap?
Lots to think about here and research to be done!!
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Howlor
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:40 AM |
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Real men have an engine! 
And also would you really want an EEC?!
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gingerprince
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:44 AM |
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I've heard of an Electric 6?
Gay Bar!
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donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:44 AM |
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quote:
And also would you really want an EEC?!
erm....yes! i like to be different!!
When i flew model aircraft i much prefered the electric planes.
It would be an interesting project. The MK does 300 miles on a single charge.
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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iank
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:47 AM |
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And real trains run on steam...
I've nothing against electric cars except the range and weight of the batteries. Everything else about them is brilliant IMO.
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Guinness
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
I've nothing against electric cars except the range and weight of the batteries. Everything else about them is brilliant IMO.
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
Could you not fit a nice petrol generator to re-charge them as you drive?
Mike
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Howlor
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Guinness
quote:
Originally posted by iank
I've nothing against electric cars except the range and weight of the batteries. Everything else about them is brilliant IMO.
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
Could you not fit a nice petrol generator to re-charge them as you drive?
Mike
Like a 1000cc bike powered genny?!
[Edited on 7/11/07 by Howlor]
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donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 10:59 AM |
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quote:
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
Not true, Batteries are always being developed. Car batteries are much the same as always but are improving with the onset of more and more
electric vehicles but who says you have to use car batteries?
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Howlor
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by donut
quote:
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
Not true, Batteries are always being developed. Car batteries are much the same as always but are improving with the onset of more and more
electric vehicles but who says you have to use car batteries?
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
You'd need a few AA's!
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Guinness
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:03 AM |
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Doesn't the Tesla use mobile phone batteries rather than lead acid stylee.
Mike
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donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:05 AM |
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I think you mean Li Poly batteris, these are getting better all the time.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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drlloyd
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:07 AM |
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately battery technology hasn't moved forward significantly in 30 years and doesn't look like it will.
I don't think that's actually true, mobile phones have ensured that battery technology has come a long way in the last 10 years. The
powerpacks that electric cars run on normally consist of a multitude of these type of batteries.
Its also good to hear that people are trying new things and not following the status quo.
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Delinquent
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:08 AM |
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I've also been hankering for a scratch build electric for ages Donut, so you are not alone oddly enough also through my RC aircraft.
If you were into electric planes no doubt you'll have used the lithium packs - I've been told these are seeing considerable use in
electric cars nowadays - though obviously it's a serious investment to make, and you need to be incredibly careful with balance etc (sure
you've seen footage of RC aircraft going up with a rather "expressive" bang!)
If I could find the packs cheap enough, I would without doubt have already started on something. Which might tell you a thing about the packs....
definitely not locost.
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donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:18 AM |
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As it will be a 'locost' project i may look at using normal batteries for now and see if it's possible to get 150+ miles with
reasonable performance, top speed of 70mph would be ok.
And yes i have been at the receiving end of the lipo battery exploding on me in my garage!!! not nice 
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Delinquent
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:22 AM |
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I think you'll seriously, seriously struggle to get anywhere near your goals using standard car batteries - look at a milk float, they
don't have that massive swath of batteries in the base for ballast... (they are however a good source of parts )
We had an electric vehicle project at school many (many many many) moons ago, a car battery and a half decent motor lasted just long enough to make
sure it was a pain in the backside to push it back to the charging station, and that was a lightweight bike wheel type affair!
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designer
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:24 AM |
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It has been done
http://www.electric7.com/
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iank
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:44 AM |
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I was careful to say hasn't got significantly better (and my father-in-law was a phd chief battery developer/designer 30 years ago and
went through the problems a couple of years and bottles of red back).
Batteries have improved a little, probably 2 or 3 times better than the batteries of yore. But for context in the same period electric motors are
10's of times , semiconductor controllers 100's of times and computer technology 1000's of times better.
There really isn't a way of improving the energy density of batteries the 50 or so times to make them a practical alternative to petrol/diesel
(say 5 times the range and a 10th the weight). Physics is against you. Thus the interest in hydrogen fuel cells etc. If batteries could be improved
to the levels required they would be spending the research £££ there.
Putting a generator in the car to run an electric motor isn't such a stupid idea as combustion engines can be made to run very efficiently at a
specific rpm. It's the constant changing rpm requirement that means current engine technology has to remain a compromise.
I confidently predict (working in the mobile phone business) that companies using li-ion/li-poly batteries will get really bad press if they ever sell
any quantity as the range will reduce to half advertised in 6months of ownership and fail completely in a year. The first car fire being visible from
10miles away will also cause some comment 
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Delinquent
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 11:51 AM |
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quote:
I confidently predict (working in the mobile phone business) that companies using li-ion/li-poly batteries will get really bad press if they
ever sell any quantity as the range will reduce to half advertised in 6months of ownership and fail completely in a year. The first car fire being
visible from 10miles away will also cause some comment
They already are selling them for specifically that purpose, they are however much more cautious with minimum voltages and maximum current draws to
prevent the early demise that you hint at - a contact I have through their use in RC is currently working extensively with automotive designers to
perfect a level between performance and sustainability.
I agree with most of your concerns (especially the fireball!), however keeping liths WELL within operating spec does give them an inordinately longer
lifespan.
One of my RC packs has had thousands of charges through it and dropped only a few percent of it's capacity & output - another identical pack
used in a different aircraft had only a couple of hundred cycles before it was dead - all down to loading.
[Edited on 7/11/07 by Delinquent]
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MikeR
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 12:17 PM |
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How much power would an electric motor need on average?
Just thinking a few batteries for burst, use the motor on the coast down to re-charge the batteries and then a little generator to provide the
'normal' power.
Won't sound great but would a little two stroke diesel generator putting out a few kw work?
(i'm thinking along the lines of the diesel trains that use an electric motor to drive the wheels)
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 12:23 PM |
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hi there you can buy a relativly good of the shelf eletric power plant by ac propulshone as is fited to an atom you may have seen picks of racing
aganst a ferari.
as for baterys there is presently a lot of reserch in using a combination of large capasiters and batterys in vhecles to store the power from
regenaterive breaking and normall operation
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donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 12:29 PM |
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From the www.electric7.com site:
[Note: working with high voltage and batteries is dangerous and can be lethal. Those involved with this project are trained in high voltage safety
and battery safety, and the depth of their involvement depends on their level of engineering expertise. Do not involve yourself in a similar project
unless you are qualified and are aware of the safety precautions that must be taken. Always take appropriate precautions: even training and
expertise does not eliminate the possibility of injury or death.]
Makes you think!! especially with my record of electrics!!
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Delinquent
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 12:32 PM |
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I can well believe it can cause death - I just had a look at the prices on AC propulsion, nearly gave me a heart attack!!!
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donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 12:37 PM |
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This is another thing to consider....cost! Can it be done simply on a budget but remain safe?
[Edited on 7/11/07 by donut]
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Delinquent
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 12:40 PM |
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honestly - if you don't know what you are doing, with some depth, I'd say no. If you do, yes. I've got at least one friend who
nearly lost their house and life just from a cock up with a RC heli pack - just think what you could do with the sort of packs you are going to need
for a car...
The safest way to do it has to be a pre-prepared solution, which isn't going to be cheap.
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donut
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| posted on 7/11/07 at 12:58 PM |
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Mate, i can't even wire a car battery
Perhaps this is a bad idea
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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