The Black Flash
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 07:49 AM |
|
|
Side Repeaters - can anyone see why this wouldn't pass?
Yeah, it's this old chestnut again. I've posted this on the Dax forum, but there's a wider group on lcb so I thought I'd ask
here as well.
I don't want to put them in the rear arches, and there aint enough sidewall to the Dax front arches to put anything in there. So I've
been faffing around for a bit and come up with another idea, which seems to cover all the requirements, but I'd appreciate a sanity check in
case I've missed anything!
The idea is to put them on the rear of the arch here:
The wooden thing on the floor is a 60 degree angle template which shows the angles of visibility the repeater has to meet (from 5 degrees to 60
degrees out) - no worries here that I can see:
And no problems with the visibility to the rear (the line on the floor is 5 degrees out from directly backwards)
It's an inch or so above the minimum height (35cm). Errrrr so can anyone see why that wouldn't work? I want to be sure before drilling
holes in the arch.
Andy
|
|
|
|
|
Daddylonglegs
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 07:53 AM |
|
|
IIRC there is a requirement to see them from a shallow front angle too. Not 100% though without looking at the manual.
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 07:58 AM |
|
|
Does it still meet the angles if you have your wheels turned full lock?
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
40inches
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 08:08 AM |
|
|
Needs to be seen 5 degrees from the front, so possible.
Why not on rear arch? Easier to wire in and fit.
 
Side Repeaters
My bad, needs to be seen between 60 to 5 degrees from the rear, not from the front. Page 176 of IVA manual.
So it should be ok.
[Edited on 8-4-13 by 40inches]
|
|
|
Jimfin
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 08:17 AM |
|
|
As said above, I think it will fail the 5 degree test as soon as lock is applied.
I solved the problem by putting them in the mirror housing.
 
Mirror with button indicator
|
|
|
40inches
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 08:22 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jimfin
As said above, I think it will fail the 5 degree test as soon as lock is applied.
I solved the problem by putting them in the mirror housing.
Mirror with button indicator
Did this pass IVA? Side repeaters must be visible from the rear.
 
Description
[Edited on 8-4-13 by 40inches]
|
|
|
johnemms
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 08:30 AM |
|
|
Mine passed no problem in rear arch same as 40inches said
Side Repeaters
Added a clear pair to headlamps later
 
clear LED in headlight
P.S set my castor to 22mm good IVA self centering
no where near as good as a tin top though 
 
Description
Own chassis & Build - First time pass!!
"7's" aren't really "cars", they are 'experiences"
|
|
|
Jimfin
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 08:33 AM |
|
|
Passed at Newcastle on 14/8/2012, they are sufficiently visible from the rear to tick the box
|
|
|
The Black Flash
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 08:58 AM |
|
|
...and this is why it's good to talk
Didn't think of the lock, will have to investigate.
That said, lots of people put them on the side of the arch, and that must be out of sight from behind when on full lock. Hmmmm.
|
|
|
johnemms
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 09:07 AM |
|
|
Rear Arch - dark orange LED - hardly notice its there
Wire from rear indicator..
Used cheap brushable seam sealer to waterproof and permanent fix wiring
 
Car getting there
(Spot the LED in the rear arch)
I really was not happy with indicator visibility so added clear/orange LED later to the headlamp bowl..
Can see if my indicator fails to self cancel too
[Edited on 8/4/13 by johnemms]
Own chassis & Build - First time pass!!
"7's" aren't really "cars", they are 'experiences"
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 09:12 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
Does it still meet the angles if you have your wheels turned full lock?
This would be my concern, whist it seems some have passed with them on wheel arches, others havent.
Im considering mounting mine above the rear arch on the roll bar in a way that I can remove them cleanly post IVA, and mount them in a more
traditional position (side of skuttle or side panel.)
[Edited on 8-4-13 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
The Black Flash
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 10:24 AM |
|
|
Looking at Westfield and Caterham, they both use indicators mounted on the sides of the front wings. So they cannot possibly be visible to the rear
on full lock, which would argue that it doesn't matter. This would make sense given the angles of visibility requirements, which are presumably
aimed at ensuring indications are visible for lane changes on motorways etc (I used to believe that the repeaters were for turning out of junctions,
but given that it's not neccesary to actually see them from side-on, they can't be).
I feel another clarification email to the nice folks at VOSA comming on...
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 10:26 AM |
|
|
Caterham (and possibly westfield) have type approval so dont need IVA IIRC.
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
The Black Flash
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 10:54 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Caterham (and possibly westfield) have type approval so dont need IVA IIRC.
Isn't that only for certain models, certainly in Wesfield's case - it's only the turbo model that's type approved is it not?
And that's not available as a kit anyway I don't think.
|
|
|
The Black Flash
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 10:55 AM |
|
|
Well I've fired off an email to Vosa, they were very helpful last time I contacted them so let's see what they come back with.
|
|
|
rodgling
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 11:07 AM |
|
|
Mine passed without question with repeaters on the front wings. The testers did say to me that they think the mirrors is a good place to have them
though.
|
|
|
theduck
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 11:11 AM |
|
|
I've put mine in the same place as op as can see nothing in the manual to say will fail there.
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 11:23 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by theduck
I've put mine in the same place as op as can see nothing in the manual to say will fail there.
Other than when wheels are turned they clearly dont meet the angles of visability!
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
PeteS2k
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 11:51 AM |
|
|
Has anyone actually failed due to masking when on full lock? Or is it just an assumption that a particularly picky tester might choose to assess with
the wheels turned?
|
|
|
theduck
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 12:17 PM |
|
|
Not seen anyone fail on it. I agree if wheels move angles change and haven't checked the angles with full lock, but lots have them there and no
failures so far that I am aware of.
|
|
|
Jimfin
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 01:07 PM |
|
|
Must admit I have not seen as low as Andy is planning before. Most I have seen are on the top edge and around the pivot line so will have relatively
little arc when lock is applied. Some of the Caterhams in fact have them in front of the pivot line so when lock is applied they will actually be more
readily seen from the rear.
|
|
|
The Black Flash
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 02:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jimfin
Must admit I have not seen as low as Andy is planning before. Most I have seen are on the top edge and around the pivot line so will have relatively
little arc when lock is applied. Some of the Caterhams in fact have them in front of the pivot line so when lock is applied they will actually be more
readily seen from the rear.
Yes I've just been poking around Caterham's site and noticed that. Very sensible place actually.
Ideally I would stick them in the sidewall of the front arch. Trouble is, the Dax arches don't really have a sidewall 
I could stick them on top of the arch, but the one I have are LED jobs and so the light is really directed outwards in a fairly flat plane - if I put
them on the top, the light's shining in the wrong direction really. Mounting them as per the picture just means that the light is aimed
correctly.
I can get around this by fitting ordinary bulb ones, and stick them towards the top of the arch, that's plan B
|
|
|
The Black Flash
|
| posted on 8/4/13 at 06:37 PM |
|
|
Ok so I've had a play this evening. In the original photo, they were indeed hidden with the wheel at full lock.
I've found a position where they are visible at full lock, further up and on the side of the arch:
Rear visibillity at 5 degrees:
So that looks like it'll work. What I'm going to do though is wait to see what VOSA come back with - if possible I'd prefer it here
- it looks better and the light is better angled:
If not, I'll put it where it is in the first pic. I'll update this thread when they reply...
|
|
|
MsD
|
| posted on 13/4/13 at 07:49 PM |
|
|
Currently in the same situation...
At Autosport at the start of the year I was chatting to one of the guys from GBS and he was adamant that they only test the angles of visibility with
the wheels straight.
The majority of kit car manufacturers position them on the front arches on their own builds. From memory there's only Roadrunner who
don't.
I love the IVA at times!!
Mark.
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 13/4/13 at 08:05 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
Mine passed no problem in rear arch same as 40inches said
Side Repeaters
Added a clear pair to headlamps later
clear LED in headlight
P.S set my castor to 22mm good IVA self centering
no where near as good as a tin top though
Description
That last picture is of my car, self centering is better than the tintop!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
