rash12
|
| posted on 13/2/14 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
fog light
does anyone know if there's something new about the fog light switching circuit new in the iva ?
|
|
|
|
|
theprisioner
|
| posted on 13/2/14 at 09:18 PM |
|
|
http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/rear-fog-controller-for-new-iva-rules
There has been a lot of discussion about this on this forum, apparently the new rule was either withdrawn or deferred. You still have to link the fog
light switch to your headlights tho.
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
rash12
|
| posted on 13/2/14 at 09:45 PM |
|
|
thanks for that
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 13/2/14 at 11:49 PM |
|
|
New rule is still there, there are reports that some inspectors let it slide, but to the letter of the manual you need either:
a switch that automatically turns off the fog when the car or head lights are switched off AND keeps it off when the car or headlights are next
switched on, until the fog light is purposefully switched back on.
Or
a buzzer that warns you the fog SWITCH is still in the on position (even if the light is switched off)
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
The Black Flash
|
| posted on 17/2/14 at 09:39 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
New rule is still there, there are reports that some inspectors let it slide, but to the letter of the manual you need either:
a switch that automatically turns off the fog when the car or head lights are switched off AND keeps it off when the car or headlights are next
switched on, until the fog light is purposefully switched back on.
Or
a buzzer that warns you the fog SWITCH is still in the on position (even if the light is switched off)
The inspectors at my test didn't even mention it, FWIW.
(Mind you they didn't check whether it only came on with the headlights or any of that either...just that all the lights worked!)
|
|
|
R1_striker
|
| posted on 20/2/14 at 09:37 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
New rule is still there, there are reports that some inspectors let it slide, but to the letter of the manual you need either:
a switch that automatically turns off the fog when the car or head lights are switched off AND keeps it off when the car or headlights are next
switched on, until the fog light is purposefully switched back on.
Or
a buzzer that warns you the fog SWITCH is still in the on position (even if the light is switched off)
this does not apply to kit cars. All you need is to turn on with headlights and have a warning light.
good luck with the iva
small tax, small insurance, huge laughs 
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 20/2/14 at 10:13 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by R1_striker
this does not apply to kit cars. All you need is to turn on with headlights and have a warning light.
good luck with the iva
IVA applies to kit car's, so that RS applies to kit cars. I have had it confirmed by VOSA via email. If your tester let you off it was merely
his interpretation, which may well be that of other testers, but may not be. I suggest either calling the station to check if they do plan to apply it
or fit something to suit. Better that than risk a £90 retest for a few £s of wiring and components.
[Edited on 20-2-14 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
SteveWallace
|
| posted on 28/2/14 at 03:22 PM |
|
|
I've just checked with the Nottingham test station and they are still interpreting it the original way. Fog lights must only come on when the
dip or main beam is on, must go off when the dip/main beam is turned off, but they are happy with the fog light switch remaining latched even if it
means that the fog comes back on again when the dip/main beam is turned back on. They seem to be regarding the fog dashboard warning light as a
sufficient signal to the driver that the fog has been left on when it shouldn't have been.
In my view this is a sensible approach. If you cannot see and interpret a warning light on your dashboard then you really shouldn't be
driving!
I also asked about what they accept as a sufficient means of locking a bias bar. They said that, as long as the prescribed warning sticker is
attached, all that they are looking for is that the bias bar cannot be adjusted without tools and cannot adjust itself due to vibration etc. I have
locked mine with a nyloc and a normal nut tightened against each other on each end of the bias bar. They said that this would be acceptable as it
would need a deliberate act and spanners to adjust it.
Of course, this is all just talk in the car park as I have not actually had my car tested yet, but I have no reason to doubt their interpretation.
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 28/2/14 at 04:08 PM |
|
|
If they're the ones doing the test then you should he fine. Just depeneds on if they have more than one tester, or they change testers between
now and test time.
personally, im not sure I agree with either of the their interpretations. (not that my opinion matters as im not doing the testing!)
The idea of the fog light switch is to stop people forgetting they have left the fog on from the night before. Its easily done and warning lights dont
always work to stop it. (i see excess use of fog lights everytime there has been some bad weather the day before). I think its a sensible addition, if
a little complex.
This is the email convo I had with VOSA:
Me:
In summary, and just to be sure! All cars presented for IVA should either
have a system that means if the fogs have been switched on, when the
position/dipped/mains are switched off the fog light should not come back
on unless they are specifcally reactivated by the driver pressing the fog
light switch.
OR
If the fog switch is still in the on position when the ignition is switched
off (or key removed and door opened) a buzzer must sound to warn the driver
that fog light switch is still in the on position
Vosa (Mark Vickers Eng Tech MSOE MIRTE Technical Officer)
I am pleased to confirm that your summary is correct. However, I would add
the caveat that the tell-tale lamp must still operate when the rear fog
lamp is on, as well as the additional buzzer.
As for the bias bar - the manual was specfically revised to suit the bias adjustment and states
Bias bars and other mechanical adjusting devices fitted to twin master cylinders must be rendered inoperable by mechanical means
e.g. lockwiring of components.
A nylocking isnt rendering it inoperable, just stopping it from coming loose.
But as I said, its all down to their interpretation, not mine.
[Edited on 28-2-14 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
turnipfarmer
|
| posted on 28/2/14 at 04:43 PM |
|
|
Interesting on the rear foglight issue.
I emailed VOSA about note 4 and this is what they wrote back...
"There is some confusion over the Note, the intention of note 4 was to also allow these options but not mandate them.
The requirement for the rear fog lamps are as follows:
The rear fog lamp(s) must only illuminate when dipped beam, main beam or front fog lamps are lit,
But the other conditions listed in the Note 4 will also be accepted if manufactured that way,
The manual is currently been amended
many thanks
Daren"
|
|
|
SteveWallace
|
| posted on 28/2/14 at 04:51 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
As for the bias bar - the manual was specfically revised to suit the bias adjustment and states
Bias bars and other mechanical adjusting devices fitted to twin master cylinders must be rendered inoperable by mechanical means
e.g. lockwiring of components.
A nylocking isnt rendering it inoperable, just stopping it from coming loose.
But as I said, its all down to their interpretation, not mine.
[Edited on 28-2-14 by loggyboy]
It seems that there is more than one valid interpretation of the Fog light issue, so as you say it seems to come down to the interpretation of the
tester (and even the VOSA person at head office) until such time that a formal clarification is issued.
With regard to the bias bar, I disagree with your disagreement. I would have thought that a nyloc locked against another nut (I.e. turning them in
opposite directions quite hard against each other) renders the bias bar just as inoperable as does lock wire. In both cases you can easily get around
the locking device with standard garage tools and in both cases its not possible to adjust it by hand alone by reaching into the foot well or for it
to come loose accidentally.
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 20/3/14 at 04:56 PM |
|
|
Just had a reply to another email I sent to VOSA for clarification.
The requirements of note 4 will therefore only apply if the rear fog lamp
then operates if the position lamps are switched off and back on, as is
possible on some modern CAN bus wiring systems. As most kit cars take the
fog lamp feed directly from the headlamp circuit, this will not be possible
and as such there is no requirement for the systems listed in note 4 to be
fitted.
I did also ask if there was to be a revision to the manual to clarify, but no mention of this was made in his reply.
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
R1_striker
|
| posted on 3/4/14 at 07:25 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by R1_striker
this does not apply to kit cars. All you need is to turn on with headlights and have a warning light.
good luck with the iva
IVA applies to kit car's, so that RS applies to kit cars. I have had it confirmed by VOSA via email. If your tester let you off it was merely
his interpretation, which may well be that of other testers, but may not be. I suggest either calling the station to check if they do plan to apply it
or fit something to suit. Better that than risk a £90 retest for a few £s of wiring and components.
[Edited on 20-2-14 by loggyboy]
As stated before
small tax, small insurance, huge laughs
|
|
|
Jenko
|
| posted on 7/4/14 at 12:29 PM |
|
|
This may or may not help....but I found this on another forum....It was the reply from vosa after a request for clarification of the fog light
rule..........
Good Morning Denis
I am sorry for the reply that you received, it was incomplete and was issued in error, It appears that I sent without adding the reply text as the
reference to the IVA manual is part of my base template, the actual reply was as follows,
We understand that there is some confusion over Note 4 in section 28 regarding the operation of rear fog lamps, the intention of Note 4 was to allow
these options but not mandate them.
The requirement for the rear fog lamps are as follows:
The rear fog lamp(s) must only illuminate when dipped beam, main beam or front fog lamps are lit,
But the other conditions listed in the Note 4 will also be accepted if manufactured / wired up that way,
The manual is currently been amended and will clarify the operation of the rear fog lamps and the accepted alternatives, we have already issued a memo
to all IVA Examiners with the correct information so VOSA Station should now be applying the correct standard.
Hopefully this will resolve your concern
For all the requirements regarding IVA can be found in the Inspection Manual which is free to download from www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval
many thanks
*******
*******
Approvals Policy Engineer
Approvals Scheme Management
Scheme Management and External Relations
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 7/4/14 at 12:36 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by R1_striker
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by R1_striker
this does not apply to kit cars. All you need is to turn on with headlights and have a warning light.
good luck with the iva
IVA applies to kit car's, so that RS applies to kit cars. I have had it confirmed by VOSA via email. If your tester let you off it was merely
his interpretation, which may well be that of other testers, but may not be. I suggest either calling the station to check if they do plan to apply it
or fit something to suit. Better that than risk a £90 retest for a few £s of wiring and components.
[Edited on 20-2-14 by loggyboy]
As stated before
But with nothing more than a single experience/opinion to back it up 
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
R1_striker
|
| posted on 8/4/14 at 07:55 AM |
|
|
a single experience that was correct, what is your experience do you have in this area? Plus i looked at the manual 
[Edited on 8/4/14 by R1_striker]
small tax, small insurance, huge laughs
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 8/4/14 at 08:16 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by R1_striker
a single experience that was correct, what is your experience do you have in this area? Plus i looked at the manual
The manual doesnt currently mention it. To the letter of the manual it should be applied to all cars. As mentioned above by Jenko, the revision is in
the pipeline.
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
SteveWallace
|
| posted on 8/4/14 at 06:32 PM |
|
|
I went through IVA with my Viento at Nottingham on Friday last week and the tester was happy with the old interpretation - fog light only comes on
with main or dipped beam and switch remains latched unless switched off (i.e. would come on again if the main/dip were switched back on).
wrt the bias bar, he was happy with my lock nut arrangement and went as far as saying that he really didn't like to see bias bars with holes
drilled in them for lock wire on the grounds that it could weaken an important component of the braking system (although he wouldn't fail
someone on that basis as the manual specifically mentions it). I do understand however, that this one is open to different interpretation.
My advice would be to phone your specific test station and ask about both of these issues. Five minutes on the phone could save a whole load of grief
drilling and locking bias bars and installing extra wiring for fog lights that you might not need
|
|
|
