carpmart
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:10 PM |
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Max letter - Only 50% of the fuel to run an F1 car....
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080703164727.shtml
........I have been suggesting this for years in my small circle of friends. Hopefully turbo's and other 'innovations' will now be
allowed back in to F1. Also, according to Moseleys letter, the developments used to save fuel should be 'road' focused.
My idea is a simple one, give the teams a fixed fuel allowance and slack off a load of other rules and let the creative F1 talent produce innovation
valid to us all!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:20 PM |
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I won't listen to Moseley......he's a fruit loop.
F1 should be the last bastien of out and out racing. It's not an endurance race to see how far you go on tank of fuel, it is who covers the
distance the fastest.
If I wanted economy, I would have traded my car in for a sinclair C5.
I want to see racing.
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
I won't listen to Moseley......he's a fruit loop.
F1 should be the last bastien of out and out racing. It's not an endurance race to see how far you go on tank of fuel, it is who covers the
distance the fastest.
If I wanted economy, I would have traded my car in for a sinclair C5.
I want to see racing.
Agree Mosely is a complete prat but I disagree on the rest.
F1 is about technology. Diesels were clattery old things in buses and plant until innovation took hold and now they are relatively efficient, high
power producing engines winning Le Mans.
Why not have the F1 paddock focused on producing the same speed from less fuel. This ahs to help us as petrol heads as we all love power and
performance but with fuel prices rocketing, it would be good to ge that performance from less fuel.
I hope you get my drift on this????
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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mr henderson
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
I won't listen to Moseley......he's a fruit loop.
F1 should be the last bastien of out and out racing. It's not an endurance race to see how far you go on tank of fuel, it is who covers the
distance the fastest.
If I wanted economy, I would have traded my car in for a sinclair C5.
I want to see racing.
Agree Mosely is a complete prat but I disagree on the rest.
F1 is about technology. Diesels were clattery old things in buses and plant until innovation took hold and now they are relatively efficient, high
power producing engines winning Le Mans.
Why not have the F1 paddock focused on producing the same speed from less fuel. This ahs to help us as petrol heads as we all love power and
performance but with fuel prices rocketing, it would be good to ge that performance from less fuel.
I hope you get my drift on this????
I do. I think it's an excellent idea and the time is right for it too.
John
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Jackman
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:32 PM |
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F1 the most boring motorsport on the planet ! BTCC is far better as well as nascar.
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Mark G
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:36 PM |
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Easy, I don't know what all the fuss is about!
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jackman
F1 the most boring motorsport on the planet ! BTCC is far better as well as nascar.
Thats the whole point, if they relax the rules to get more power from less fuel, the turbo's should be allowed back in again which would make it
much more interesting again.
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:52 PM |
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You guys have got a short memory.
In the days before fuel stops, you raced on the tank of fuel you started with, for the whole race. The tanks had a maximum size, the distance of the
race was set so there was your limits.
Cars are still encouraged to use less fuel as more fuel requires more pitstops.
If you don't have a fuel effiecient car, you will lose the race.
Your arguement is flawed
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Jackman
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:55 PM |
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Mmmmmmmm! there are many other motorsport series that run more competetively without the use of turbos ! I think F1 has other issues like the cars
being to relient on down force etc
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indykid
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jackman
F1 the most boring motorsport on the planet ! BTCC is far better as well as nascar.
the same BTCC where teams are now running E85 are they not?
just because it doesn't follow the weber philosphy of throw petrol at it to make it go faster doesn't neccessarily mean it's bad for
motorsport.
it's why i don't quite understand nitram's view that motorsport should be exempt from advancing technology to increase efficiency.
it's a good way to why we're not all still driving pinto powered daily drivers.
tom
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RichieW
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 05:58 PM |
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I thought they had just recently decided to halt engine development to stop build costs rising.
All Moseley's letter means is millions is spent on research again and boring racing is the result as the fat wallet teams buy their way to the
front again.
How are the smaller teams supposed to compete?
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BenB
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:02 PM |
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Why not just limit the max size of fuel tanks.... Consider the penalty of pit stops I'm sure the cars would become fuel efficient....
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:03 PM |
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As I said, it's called RACING, not ENDURING.
They already have championships for driving the furthest on 1 ltr of petrol etc.
It's interesting, but dull to watch.
F1 is what it is. Fast.
Does it not occur to you that all F1 racing teams are trying to get the most power from their engines from the least amount of fuel or is it just me
being thick?
Engine designers don't build engines without considering fuel consumption do they?
[Edited on 3/7/2008 by nitram38]
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Why not just limit the max size of fuel tanks.... Consider the penalty of pit stops I'm sure the cars would become fuel efficient....
They already do
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Why not just limit the max size of fuel tanks.... Consider the penalty of pit stops I'm sure the cars would become fuel efficient....
They are limited already. The penalty of stopping at some circuits is large whilst at others small depending on a number of factors.
I think my point still stands; providing a fixed amount of fuel and reducing the limitations on what a team can do from an engine perspective will
drive innovation which we will all benefit from. All upside as far as I can see!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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Jackman
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:16 PM |
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We do all have alot of diffrent veiws! But one thing i think we do all agree on is that F1 dose need somthing to make it more intresting to
watch.
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:16 PM |
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If you want a fuel efficent car go here
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jackman
We do all have alot of diffrent veiws! But one thing i think we do all agree on is that F1 dose need somthing to make it more intresting to
watch.
People who say this have never driven a single seater car.
Try one and you might change your mind.
The mentallity of a BTCC Driver is a lot different to any single seater formula driver.
What might look spectacular in BTCC usually kills F1 drivers, so they try not to look "interesting" for the sake of you.
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
If you want a fuel efficent car go here
Impressive as this (in a certain way) it still misses my point.
The F1 teams employ arguably the best brains/engineers that exist. If their focus is shifted to producing more efficient engines but with roughly the
same power, it will lead to innovation from which we will all benefit. If at the same time the spectacle of F1 is improved as people can turn up the
wick on their turbo to overtake or change the gearing on their supercharger to get that bit more power, it is all upside!
I hope I have managed to articulate what I am trying to convey?
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:37 PM |
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I'm with Martin on this one (and i used to work for Shell Research who did the F1 fuel, and was even asked to apply for the job doing the fuels
and lubes testing at the GP's).
F1 is surely about racing to the maximum performance given the limits of engine size and within the thousnads of other limits they have on the cars.
If they want to start meddling (yet again!!) in an attempt to push more fuel efficient race cars then why not do it in a more suitable series - surely
something like the Le Mans endurance cars would be more suitable and surely the technology used is closer to road cars???
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 06:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
I'm with Martin on this one (and i used to work for Shell Research who did the F1 fuel, and was even asked to apply for the job doing the fuels
and lubes testing at the GP's).
F1 is surely about racing to the maximum performance given the limits of engine size and within the thousnads of other limits they have on the cars.
If they want to start meddling (yet again!!) in an attempt to push more fuel efficient race cars then why not do it in a more suitable series - surely
something like the Le Mans endurance cars would be more suitable and surely the technology used is closer to road cars???
Please read my posts again. I am in favour of the maximum performance possible and don't want to degrade F1. All I am saying is that if you
shift the innovation focus in F1 to fuel efficiency whilst maintaining the power, the exceptionally talented individuals employed in this sport will
come up with some great technology that we have not even considered. This innovation will be of benefit to everyone (you, me your mum, our kids et
al) whilst not diminishing the spectacle of F1. A win win if ever there was one!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 07:15 PM |
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But it just wont work like that in reality. Even the fuels used are blended to optimise the power output of the engines which run at up to 19,000 rpm
- and its bugger all like pump fuel!!
To move the goal posts towards promoting fuel efficiency but expecting the teams to maintain the power will highly likely mean the gap between the big
teams and little teams gets wider and wider and forces costs up across the board.
Seems like the whole thing is a ploy by Moseley to divert attention off the fact that he should have been booted out and try to win a few mates in the
form of the green lobby - jumping on their band wagon
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 07:35 PM |
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They are already trying to get maximum fuel efficiency!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No engine designer is going to make the highest power engine at the cost of using more fuel.
They WANT the most power at the least fuel.
The only way to reduce fuel by 50% is to introduce maximum speeds to 50% of what they are now.
That is called Formula Ford, GP2 etc where everyone has the same equipment which limits the top speed.
This is F1 and the cars are all different but within defined limits of the FIA.
This means that the teams are ALWAYS developing the car towards making it faster within these rules.
All Moseley is doing is joining the "green" clean brigade to take people's minds off his own dirty little secret.
He wants people to think that he is not so bad after all.
He is just part of the same propaganda machine that is extracting more money from everyone, while lining his own pockets.
It's about time that the FIA is lead by a proper racing driver and not this interfering idiot.
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RK
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 07:36 PM |
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It's about image: F1 doesn't want to look like it's a dinasaur. It wants to look modern and cutting edge (again); and that involves
a bit of "conservation".
There was an article in the French language Reader's Digest recently about a guy from Chicago who, by paying attention to his driving habits,
burnt about the same amount of fuel as a hybrid driver. The point is that there are ways to save energy, and if F1 looks like it's making an
effort, everyone will make an effort.
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nitram38
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| posted on 3/7/08 at 07:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RK
It's about image: F1 doesn't want to look like it's a dinasaur. It wants to look modern and cutting edge (again); and that involves
a bit of "conservation".
There was an article in the French language Reader's Digest recently about a guy from Chicago who, by paying attention to his driving habits,
burnt about the same amount of fuel as a hybrid driver. The point is that there are ways to save energy, and if F1 looks like it's making an
effort, everyone will make an effort.
I can imagine it now:
After the race at Silverstone, Lewis Hamilton said " I may have come second to last, but at least I saved 12 litres in fuel".
"I'm doing my bit for the enviroment and the common man"
Like that is ever going to happen 
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