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Author: Subject: Cycle Show 2018
Daf

posted on 4/10/18 at 09:42 AM Reply With Quote
I can't speak for road cyclists (too scared of traffic to do that myself) but going to a 1x setup has been a revelation on the mtb for me. With all the dirt and suden changes in speed front derailleuro were never that reliable and needed constant maintnence. I have a couple of front rings mow and I'll swap over to a smaller one before going if im going somewhere with some serious climbing.
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nick205

posted on 4/10/18 at 09:42 AM Reply With Quote
jps

Fair comments on road racing setups.

Where some of the 1x MTB setups have reached 1x11 (11 different cogs wide on the rear sprocket) they're already using devices to help guide the chain on/off the single front chain ring. They won't be able to go much (if any) wider on the rear sprocket and live with the chain angle on/off the front chain ring. If they do the chain and chain ring will wear quickly and be up for replacement more often. Perhaps OK for well backed teams, but less so for more budget minded amateur cyclists.

I also saw a number of bikes at the show running internally geared rear hubs. These hubs didn't look light and I'd imagine they're not so cheap either.

Besides the MTB gear spread the other desire for smaller MTB front chain rings is to improve ground clearance and reduce bash damage (logs etc.).

All said, it's an area I shall be watching with interest to see how things change and develop.

[Edited on 4/10/18 by nick205]

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02GF74

posted on 4/10/18 at 04:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
.

I also saw a number of bikes at the show running internally geared rear hubs. These hubs didn't look light and I'd imagine they're not so cheap either.

Besides the MTB gear spread the other desire for smaller MTB front chain rings is to improve ground clearance and reduce bash damage (logs etc.).
,


Having gears inside the hub is not ideal, unsprung weight and all that (applicable to FS bikes)

Alternative is to have gearbox at the bottom bracket, see https://pinion.eu/en/.

Did you see any bikes at the show fitted with these.






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nick205

posted on 5/10/18 at 08:01 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
.

I also saw a number of bikes at the show running internally geared rear hubs. These hubs didn't look light and I'd imagine they're not so cheap either.

Besides the MTB gear spread the other desire for smaller MTB front chain rings is to improve ground clearance and reduce bash damage (logs etc.).
,


Having gears inside the hub is not ideal, unsprung weight and all that (applicable to FS bikes)

Alternative is to have gearbox at the bottom bracket, see https://pinion.eu/en/.

Did you see any bikes at the show fitted with these.



I saw several belt drive hard tail bikes with internally geared rear hubs (Rohloff mainly). A component seller stand also had one of these hubs sectioned so you could see the internals. Yes the hubs are chunky in size and in weight. Possibly not so bad on a hard tail bike, but as you say probably more of an issue on a full suspension bike.

I didn't see any bikes with internal gears in the bottom brack section (they may have been there, but I didn't see them). Ultimately that type of arrangement would improve the unsprung mass and Centre of Gravity of the bike. Not sure you'd get a higher selection of gear ratios available to the cyclist though?

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Rich J

posted on 5/10/18 at 08:59 AM Reply With Quote
Why not combine the "Lefty" with the gearbox, belt drive and add titanium?

https://www.hilite-bikes.com/titanium-pinion-mtb-mountainbike



[Edited on 5/10/18 by Rich J]

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nick205

posted on 5/10/18 at 09:33 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rich J
Why not combine the "Lefty" with the gearbox, belt drive and add titanium?

https://www.hilite-bikes.com/titanium-pinion-mtb-mountainbike



[Edited on 5/10/18 by Rich J]



Rather nifty

Didn't see this at the show, but a brief scan of the website and it looks pretty good.

Not ridden a Titanium framed bike myself, but when you see a well made one they are quite a thing to take in.

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jps

posted on 5/10/18 at 12:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
They won't be able to go much (if any) wider on the rear sprocket and live with the chain angle on/off the front chain ring.

I also saw a number of bikes at the show running internally geared rear hubs. These hubs didn't look light and I'd imagine they're not so cheap either.
[Edited on 4/10/18 by nick205]


I haven't had my measuring tape out to check - but my understanding is that cassettes haven't been getting any wider since 8 speed. Hence chains are available in 6/7/8speed, then with distinct specific chains for 9spd, 10spd, 11spd... They've just been making the sprockets and the chains thinner.

Hub gears typically have the problem of large gaps between ratios, because they tend to be applied in 1x settings and because of the added complexity of adding 'another gear' to the setup. But for utility, rather than 'fun', cycling i'd have hub gears every time - they're much more 'fit and forget' than derailleurs.

[Edited on 5/10/18 by jps]

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02GF74

posted on 5/10/18 at 05:01 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205. Ultimately that type of arrangement would improve the unsprung mass and Centre of Gravity of the bike. Not sure you'd get a higher selection of gear ratios available to the cyclist though?
...

This type of gearbox is suited to downhill where weight is not such an issue. They give more clearance since there is no rear derailleur and smallest chainring plus chain less likely to drop off.

Maybe a few more years of development it may be the norm, derailleur shifting is pretty brutal forcing the chain across sprockets, probably invented by the victoriana but is very efficient and effective.

The shimano di2 is able to shift front and rear at same time to avoid gaps in the gear ratios, personally I don't like the idea of battery gears due to what happens when the battery runs out.






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nick205

posted on 8/10/18 at 08:44 AM Reply With Quote
jps - I do believe you're right that cassettes and chains have become more setup specific. Probably good design and manufacturing development, but as with most things I suspect it'll reach it's limits in terms of perfomance/durability.
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jossey

posted on 5/11/18 at 03:08 AM Reply With Quote
I still have my kona pahoehoe 1998 full xtr groupset from stif in Leeds.

Actually bought the cindercone but the frame broke jumping off a van.
But they replaced it under warranty which was nice as it broke at a weld.

Love kona bikes.





Thanks



David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

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