Simon
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 10:23 AM |
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Radiators
Chaps,
I was fortunate enough to have borrowed a Valeo catalogue (they do rads, heater matrices etc) which has all rad dimensions, line drawings and water
quantity.
I looked at Range Rover (that was all I could find with R V8 in!), and for that it quotes 12 litres.
The dimensions of the Rover 200/400 (old shape) Turbo Diesels are small enough to fit my car, and hold 8 litres.
I reckon this will be enough, given that engine will be pulling at least a third the weight of a RR.
What do you think?
Thanks
Simon
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 11:30 AM |
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im not a thermo dynamicist, and cant even spell it.
However I do have a bit of experience in fan / rad cooling for things at work.
When you quote capacity, you are talking about the full capacity of the original car -not the rad I imagine!
The capacity isnt really relevent.
What IS, is the air temperature, the differential in temp you want from the inlet to the outlet of the rad, the rate of air flow though the rad, and
its surface area.
When I have asked cooling specialists about this kinda thing, the flow rate, or volume of whats flowing, isnt a factor they ask for.
In your application, you I think will be more interested in SURFACE area of the rad. That means the area of the cores - like are there 20 rows, are
they doubled up - ie one behind the other giving a double set of cores.....the more there are, the greater the dissipation.
The more air, at the cooler the temp, the more you will kick out of the rad.
For your application, I would look at the actual heat the car will generate due to power produced rather than your car being low weight. (tho its
related).
I have no idea of the efficiency of an engine. Lets say that its 80% efficient and 20% is lost as heat. In a 150 hp engine (750 watts approx per hp
est) thats 112 kilowatts total, and 20% of that is around 22kw. The rad needs to get rid of that.
So, engine producing 150hp in either application will produce same heat to be got rid of by the rad. Your car being lighter will require less power to
propel a same speed. Wether thats linear is anyones guess!
Ideally, you need to know the kw rating of both rads, and calc the hp your car will use at norm speeds and the efficency of the engine.
Or you fit as big a rad as poss and hope.
I fitted one from a car of similar engine capacity as a best guess.
atb
steve
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Fast Westie
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 11:45 AM |
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Use the 380mm wide Golf alloy one (can't remember the ref) it cools a V8 Westfie1d. About £45 at your local Partco
The car in front is a Westfield
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Spyderman
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 posted on 7/4/03 at 12:02 PM |
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Wow!
Very impressive Steve!
I think your figures are a little out, but what you are saying is about right.
As I see it what you are saying is that, the greater the airflow over whatever volume of water your Rad carries the better! Right?
If your rad is not cooling your engine you need to increase the airflow and the water flow through the rad.
That is why larger rads are more common on saloon cars than on race cars. The greater the volume of water held outside of the engine, the better
chance it has of cooling down.
If you could alter the gearing to the water pump, you could make it more efficient when idling or running slowly.
Ideally the water pump should be electrically driven so that it can be regulated to suit engine temperature and not speed.
Just my thoughts, and probably not much use to you!
Terry
Spyderman
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 01:11 PM |
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As I say, I dont know that much, but I offered what I could.
The numbers were either approx or guessed so that could make some kinda point.
More impressive, is that a guy I work with's father used to own a cooling company. They designed stuff for jaguar and the cooling system(s) in
the challenger tank!
atb
steve
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Simon
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 02:10 PM |
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Chaps,
Thanks for your thoughts.
FastWestie - any chance of some more details (ie part no)
Thanks
Simon
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Fast Westie
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| posted on 8/4/03 at 08:46 AM |
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Euro car parts number 203440611
VW part no. is 171121253CJ
from Polo/Derby 1.1-1.3 83-90 & Golf/Jetta 1.05-1.3 84-92
The car in front is a Westfield
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 8/4/03 at 09:19 AM |
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FW, you're a hero!
Now, if someone can do the same for the Micra, I'll have all the data I need to make a decision...
DJ
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Simon
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| posted on 8/4/03 at 09:35 AM |
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FW
Thanks very muchly!
ATB
Simon
PS Just as a point of interest, I had a look at the rad that Westfield supply - £312!!!!!
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Stu16v
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| posted on 8/4/03 at 06:00 PM |
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Fast Westie's suggestion of a Polo rad is good with conventional 4 pot motors (capable of keeping a 250bhp motor cool), but the general
consensus on the Westfield forum is that it has no hope of cooling a V8 powered Westy. Even in standard form, a V8 creates an enormous amount of heat,
which the Polo rad is not capable of dealing with.
HTH Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Fast Westie
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| posted on 10/4/03 at 01:49 PM |
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quote:
Fast Westie's suggestion of a Polo rad is good with conventional 4 pot motors (capable of keeping a 250bhp motor cool), but the general
consensus on the Westfield forum is that it has no hope of cooling a V8 powered Westy. Even in standard form, a V8 creates an enormous amount of heat,
which the Polo rad is not capable of dealing with.
That's why I suggested the Golf rad, 3 core think instead of 2! If you are pushing the car hard I would also recomend an oil cooler.
The car in front is a Westfield
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Stu16v
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| posted on 10/4/03 at 07:59 PM |
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Have a read of ....this....
Cheers, Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Simon
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| posted on 11/4/03 at 08:43 AM |
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Stu,
Reckon that'll do nicely!
Cheers very much
ATB
Simon
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Spyderman
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| posted on 11/4/03 at 11:43 AM |
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I can vouch for Radtech in Cannock.
They rebuilt my Toyota Spacecruiser Rad which leaked like a sive(?).
Cost about £90 as opposed to the £250 that Toyota wanted.
Terry
Spyderman
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Fast Westie
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| posted on 14/4/03 at 11:07 AM |
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quote:
Have a read of ....this....
Not sure about concencus, but does make for interesting reading. I do know of other V8 engine cars without the factory rad that do keep cool. Also
remember that a Westfie1d V8 has a ducted nose cone so there is no airflow past the engine which probably won't be the case in a Locost.
The car in front is a Westfield
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Simon
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| posted on 14/4/03 at 04:14 PM |
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Just spoke to GSF, the part no 17333 (RADIATOR-430mm G2 1.6 Carb 8/83) is also listed for the Golf GTi.
Think that might be the one!!
Any comments before I order (sometime tomorrow)
Thanks
Simon
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 15/4/03 at 08:23 AM |
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Simon,
In my experience the Golf radiators are wider than the Polo ones. The former are more rectangular, while the latter are nearer to a square shape.
From Eurocarparts:-
Part no. 203440611 is listed as Golf/Jetta/Passat
Part no. 203440491 is listed as Polo 83-90
I'm pretty sure they're different. I'm using the Polo on and it fits fine. See this
link for a couple of photos.
Cheers,
Eddy
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Simon
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| posted on 15/4/03 at 08:46 AM |
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Eddy,
Thanks for your comment.
Is your radiator one of the 380 or 430mm wide rads.
The reason I ask is my chassis is 4" wider than book, so think I may (need to check my measuring) be able to have a rad up to 530mm wide.
Thanks again
Simon
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/4/03 at 09:09 AM |
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Don't get caught like I did!
I bought the narrower Polo rad, and although the core may be 380mm the entire width is 520mm when you include the plastic bits on the side.
I believe the wider rad is 600mm overall.
Best to take a tape measure to your nosecone before you buy!
David
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 16/4/03 at 09:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I bought the narrower Polo rad, and although the core may be 380mm the entire width is 520mm when you include the plastic bits on the side.
Hmmm....I have a Polo rad - the overall width INCLUDING the plastic tanks is 470mm.
The part no. is listed elsewhere in this thread, and in the Engine section under the thread Polo Rad, where I have also posted photos.
Cheers,
Eddy
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