MK Charlie
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 posted on 16/10/07 at 11:07 AM |
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Hello everyone!
I'd just like to start off by saying hello to all of you. Earlier this year I bought an MK Indy. It had done 400 miles only. Has a full race
cage, GRP seats, toyota 16v 4age on a type 9 gearbox with a cossie 3.62 LSD. I didnt get much time to drive it as i struggled to find insurance (I am
only 20). Eventually a local broker quoted me £600 fully comp for the year, which for my age i thought was really good.
Its now come to winter and I would quite like to change the engine to something a bit more powerful. I did a lot of research on the 4age engines and
thought it was a good engine to have. but since owning the car and going on a few meets in the northampton area i've decided its not
particularly quick. I'm a huge fan of japanese cars and would never go for anything else.
Time for my question... Does anyone know if an engine and gearbox out of a nissan 200sx s13 will fit in the indy? i understand that i will have to do
a lot of work to fit the turbo in, and i will need a new prop shaft to join it to my diff. I'm assuming that if it does fit i will need a vented
bonnet to aid with cooling the turbo and providing extra clearance.
Thanks a lot guys, any help greatly appreciated
Charlie
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NigeEss
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 11:10 AM |
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Shall I say it first ?
B I K E - E N G I N E
[Edited on 16/10/07 by NigeEss]
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Guinness
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 11:14 AM |
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Hi & Welcome to the mad house.
There is a lad on here, who has an Indy with a Nissan Turbo engine in it.
GraemeMK is his user name. Use the search function to look for posts about his install. I'm sure he'll be along shortly.
Also BimbleUK has a Toyota engine that he has just supercharged, may be an option?
HTH
Mike
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MK Charlie
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 11:17 AM |
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I did look at BEC's before i bought my Indy. I went for a car engine because i want to be able to do some cruising in the car. My family have a
caravan on the north Norfolk coast not far from Hunstanton and i'd like to be able to take my car there, and sitting at 60-70mph for 80miles in
a BEC isnt my idea of fun really. I'm not nocking BEC's in the slightest, AWESOME! just not for me for what i want out of the car if that
makes sense! If i drive my car sensibly (well as sensibly as you can in a kit car) i'm getting really good economy out of my car. I know a
nissan turbo engine isnt going to be economical, but the revs will be low while doing cruising speeds, and it will be off boost, so shouldnt be too
bad.
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brynhamlet
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 11:38 AM |
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Wow how much power do you want
I did a quick search on the internet and you can get up to 200bhp out of the engine you've got
Thats 400bhp per ton in an Indy, and you've got a nice light engine. If you don't want it I'll give you a fiver for it for my MK
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flak monkey
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 11:50 AM |
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As Bryn says. The 4age is a very tuneable lump. RAW Engineering are masters with that engine may be worth giving them a call. It will more than likely
be cheaper, and definately easier to tweak your current engine, than retrofit a different one. As you will need a new bellhousing, exhaust, engine
mounts, wiring loom etc etc. All adds up in cost very quickly!
Plus 200bhp in a 600kg car, is silly anyway, you'll never be able to use all the power on the road, you just increase your chances of stuffing
the car in a hedge somewhere .
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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MK Charlie
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 11:50 AM |
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I looked into tuning it, but to get any major power i'd need the 20v head, which doesnt go on the 16v bottom end, so a total engine change
required. I dont want an engine really highly tuned either (cams, valves etc) because my stepdad used to hav a locost with a 1740 xflow built to
152bhp. It was undrivable below 3500rpm because the cam was so aggressive in it. i'd rather hav a more powerful engine from standard. I know the
biggest worry with turbo engines in 7's is the lag, but i'll probably end up putting a small hybrid turbo on it so it spools up quickly.
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stevec
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 12:01 PM |
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I agree with above 200bhp is plenty really.
Much more than that and you have built a "Ditch finder special"
Steve.
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MK Charlie
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 12:31 PM |
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My engine is from RAW engineering. I understand that it might still be "tight" having only covered 1200miles from new. I spoke to them
about making it faster and they said i would need to change for the 20v 4age if i want a powerful car that still has a lot of drivability at low end
revs. I'm not looking for huge power. The engine from the S13 is a 1.8 turbo producing about 180bhp in its standard form. I'm thinking
this would be a cheaper option than the 20v as that is a rare engine and can be sold for anything up to £1000. Ideally I'm looking for
180-200bhp with low end drivability as well as high end torque.
I would use the gearbox from the S13 aswell so i would just need my propshaft modded to fit between the new gearbox and my diff.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 12:40 PM |
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Try it on a track before ripping it out for something else.
Fast in a straight line is easy with a big powerful motor.
Fast round corners is much harder - but made easier with a small light engine such as a 4AGE.
So it comes down to what do you want to use the car for? to be fast on a track you'll probably be ok with what you have, to be fast on a drag
strip get the 200sx motor
Cheers
Mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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macdave69
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 01:32 PM |
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Right, so you definitely know what you don't want, so rather than playing the "guess which engine I don't want this week"
game,
Do you just want us to back up your desire to have a 1.8 turbo?
If this is the case, then
I'd go for the 1.8 turbo,
Sorted
Next post please!
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awinter
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 01:42 PM |
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Honda B16a, jap import version, on optimax 170bhp. Only 1600cc revs to 8500 rpm. Retain the drivability and economy wolf in sheep clothing above
6000rpm. The torque of a turbo engine will make the car very difficult to drive quickly due to the lack of weight in a kit car. You may want to get an
insurance quote before you do an engine change.
Allan
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 02:18 PM |
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I would certainly think about speaking to RAW again. Have a word with them about Supercharging or tuning your current engine in some form. I've
never really found a 4-age to be exactly slow and as mentioned its such a light engine so will help handling.
Check out insurance if thinking of fitting a bigger capacity turbo engine also - especially as you are so young.
Dont take this the wrong way but driver training will probably make you faster than more power anyway so maybe consider spending money here instead.
These cars arent all about drag-strip performance!!
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TimC
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 02:38 PM |
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All IMHO....
From what I've seen the Nissan Turbo is not terribly suitable for the Indy - I appreciate that a couple have used them but the engine is
extremely tall and would likely require a very tall ride-height which would ruin the drivability of the car.
The 4age is a cracking engine - I've been out in Raw's old 16v demo car and it was seriously quick. I wouldn't give up on it just
yet. I'd investigate the gains that could be made with your current motor - in case you hadn't guessed in my view it is a highly
desirable unit.
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COREdevelopments
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 03:44 PM |
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you could always turbo the 4age. a supercharger as said would be my choice. im using a 4age with twin 40s dellortos and megajolt im hoping this setup
will be good enough for now. iv got a spare engine to play about with.
have you though about a vauxhall 2l xe? no turbo but still very tunable and cheaply too.
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Jos Fury
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 03:44 PM |
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Hi and welcome !
Nice car you bought
I would first try to use the 4 age potentional. Maybe Tb's and a some other cams will gain quite some horsepower. Depending on that costs maybe
fit a 20v instead. Mell can tell you for sure.
( A have a raw 16V unit too in my Fury ).
regards
Jos
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MK Charlie
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 03:44 PM |
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cheers guys. think you have all convinced me that its not worth changing engine. i will look up what else i can do to squeeze some extra power from
the current lump. Spoke to RAW and gave them my engine code and they said my engine is near enough standard, but it is a brand new unit, not a rebuild
so is worth a few pennies. I think santa will be getting me some bits for the 4age by the sounds of it.
Cheers for all your help
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 04:23 PM |
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So your engine isnt even run in then yet and will no doubt give plenty more once it is. I'm sure a set of cams will give you all the power you
need for now but so as you can plan for xmas 2008..... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/anthony.pralet/LocoRAGE/sc/sc.html
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 16/10/07 at 07:13 PM |
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Hi Mk Charlie
I'm running basically the same set up - 4age 16v & type9
If you fit a TracPac1 set of cams, and assuming you're running weber 40's you should end up around the 160+ ish bhp.
That should be plenty
One thing I noticed though is that a 3.6 diff is awfully long, i'm running a 4.7 and the car still runs out of aerodynamics before it runs out
of revs and I only rev it to 8k, drop the diff and it'll feel much punchier through the gears.
Hope this helps
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