02GF74
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 03:50 PM |
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which 4 cylinder firing order is better
and why?
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 03:59 PM |
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I always find the one the car was designed with is best. Why? Cos the other one wont run right.
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oily85
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 04:12 PM |
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I think they're just the opposite of each other aren't they
1-3-4-2-(1-3-4-2)-1-3-4-2
1-2-4-3-1-(2-4-3-1)-2-4-3
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02GF74
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 04:25 PM |
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^^^ well yeah.
1342 fires the middle cylinder before its outer neighbour whereas 1243 fires outer cylinder before its neighbour.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 04:26 PM |
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are you trying to suggest you even have a choice?
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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02GF74
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 04:31 PM |
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^^^ yes there is a choice. 1342 is used on vast majority of engines with Ford using 1243 in the past.
Porsche use a different order on their flat fours but we'll ignore that since it is not an inline 4.
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 04:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
I always find the one the car was designed with is best. Why? Cos the other one wont run right.
I was assistant tutor on a motor mech course once and we had this here 'wannabe' lad on the training course. He was topping up the
antifreeze on his Senator 3.0litre, one afternoon, when he appeared in the study room and asked me what the firing order was on his car. So I told him
to go and look it up in the Auto Data book. He said ' I did but but they haven't got it right so I just go and reconnect the spark plug
leads till I have got it right.' 
Turned out that whilst topping up the antifreeze he decided that the timing was out, so he adjusted the distributor, then he 'rearranged all the
plug leads so that they looked neater. At that point the engine wouldn't start at all. So he decided to go back to basics and refit the leads as
per auto data (without any regard for where TDC No1 was in relation to the rotor arm). But it still wouldn't start because of where he had
adjusted the distributor to without the engine running. It was at that point that he asked what the firring order was 'because the book was
wrong.' Doh 
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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paulf
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 04:51 PM |
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Tuned crossflows do sound nice , dont know if its due to the firing order, zetecs are 1342 as most other engines and dont sound the same.
Paul.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 05:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
^^^ yes there is a choice. 1342 is used on vast majority of engines with Ford using 1243 in the past.
Porsche use a different order on their flat fours but we'll ignore that since it is not an inline 4.
most folk are stuck with it, unless they like to grind there own cams 
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 05:31 PM |
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Ok, which is better for a 4 cyl boxer - 1,4,3,2 (VW) or 1,3,2,4 (Subaru)?
(I know the answer before anyone takes my head off)
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 06:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
Ok, which is better for a 4 cyl boxer - 1,4,3,2 (VW) or 1,3,2,4 (Subaru)?
(I know the answer before anyone takes my head off)
They are the same (well, technically a mirror image I think) as Subaru numbers the cylinders differently 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 06:41 PM |
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In effect they are the same --- 6 cylinder firing orders are more complex.
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Coose
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 09:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by paulf
Tuned crossflows do sound nice , dont know if its due to the firing order, zetecs are 1342 as most other engines and dont sound the same.
Paul.
X-flows are 1342 also, but the sound comes from the fact that they're 8-valve and not 16. The difference is in the fact that you've got 8
big valves clattering against their seats instead of 16!
Spin 'er off Well...
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NS Dev
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 10:43 PM |
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well if we are playing silly games, I know of somebody running a 4 cylinder vauxhall race engine with 1&4 - 2&3, as a twin...............
obviously couldn't decide which order was best so removed the debate!!!
get into vee engines and it all gets far to complex and annoying, what with unequal firing angles and all that caboodle!!
[Edited on 17/3/08 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 17/3/08 at 10:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Coose
X-flows are 1342 also,
The Kent crossflow (and I think Valencia and HCS) has a firing order of 1243.
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hemibum
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 12:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Coose
X-flows are 1342 also,
The Kent crossflow (and I think Valencia and HCS) has a firing order of 1243.
Twas Lotus I believe who changed the firing order of the Kent engine while developing the Twink?
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02GF74
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 11:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Coose
X-flows are 1342 also,
The Kent crossflow (and I think Valencia and HCS) has a firing order of 1243.
yes, crossflow is 1243.
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02GF74
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 11:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
well if we are playing silly games, I know of somebody running a 4 cylinder vauxhall race engine with 1&4 - 2&3, as a twin...............
that is wasted spark though.
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02GF74
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 11:53 AM |
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I was hoping there was a proper reaosn like one is smoother. less stree on the crank or will run cooler etc. but I just don't see it myself.
Whoever designed the crossflow may have had a good reason for doing this - could be something ridiculous like the igntion leads are shorter than for
1342 so saves 20 p!!???!?!
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 12:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
well if we are playing silly games, I know of somebody running a 4 cylinder vauxhall race engine with 1&4 - 2&3, as a twin...............
that is wasted spark though.
I think he meant the guy had a custom cam so that the cylinders actually fired simultaneously.
Interesting idea, probably a bit rough at low revs but will actually be better balanced at high revs.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 12:51 PM |
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big bang theory , 2 cylinders firing at the same time .
of half a nascar v8 in a class 9 .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Coose
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 01:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Coose
X-flows are 1342 also,
The Kent crossflow (and I think Valencia and HCS) has a firing order of 1243.
Which is 1342 if you stand at the other end! Therefore, no real difference.....
Spin 'er off Well...
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 01:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Coose
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Coose
X-flows are 1342 also,
The Kent crossflow (and I think Valencia and HCS) has a firing order of 1243.
Which is 1342 if you stand at the other end! Therefore, no real difference.....
No it's not, standing at the other end makes 1=4, 2=3, 3=2, 4=1 so the firing is 4-3-1-2 which is the same as 1-2-4-3, not the same as
1-3-4-2.
1342 is the same as running 1243 backwards.
[Edited on 18/3/08 by matt_claydon]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 04:01 PM |
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Xflo is 1-2-4-3
Fords were traditionally always 1-2-4-3 going back to the Model T perhaps even earlier.
Lotus-Ford Twincam wasn't a Ford design Chapman paid peanuts to Harry Mundy & Richard Ansdale to design it. JAP assembled it.
http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2006/10/01/hmn_feature25.html
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/3/08 at 04:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
big bang theory , 2 cylinders firing at the same time .
of half a nascar v8 in a class 9 .
I think the prize must go to those Honda F1 engines Lotus & MacLaren used way back in the Mansell era, in effect they were 2 three cylinder
engines sharing a common flat plane crank --- sounding a bit rough didn't quite cover it. First time the bold Nige drove one he came back
inwithout completing a lap swearing it was broken.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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