craig1410
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 01:36 PM |
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Tiling above bath/shower advice?
Hi guys,
Been searching the web in general on this topic and there seems to be 12 opinions for every aspect of tiling, ALL of them 110% correct, tried and
tested over 140 years of tiling experience... I'm more confused now than when I started!
Anyway, I'm installing a complete new bathroom suite and have done the plumbing, subfloor, vinyl covering, toilet and basin so far. I've
also tiled the wall behind the basin and it's pretty decent. Tiles are ceramic 361x276x9mm with a stone effect print. The backs are ribbed
'biscuit' (I think that's what it's known as anyway) type. I'm using Mapei BuildFix flexible tile adhesive along with
the matching acrylic wall primer/sealer and flexible grout. I've also got some grout sealer. I'm tiling onto plasterboard (the green
coloured stuff) which has been repaired and sealed with the acrylic primer mentioned above.
Next step is the shower/bath which is of the type which is fatter at the shower end than the other end but is square rather than 'P'
shaped if you know what I mean. I have installed the plumbing for the shower and fitted the thermostatic bar mixer temporarily. All the plumbing is
working and no apparent leaks. All good so far... The bath by the way is a very good quality fibreglass bath, much thicker than normal and is very
rigid. However I intend to fit a batten to the walls to support the lip to avoid any sag and it also has adjustable feet under the two square section
steel frames. It doesn't have a 5th centre foot like most flimsy baths but the 'plank' under the tub is probably 1" thick so I
don't think that will be a problem.
Some specific areas which I need advice on:
1. Should I use a plastic tile trim between bath edge and tiles or am I better off with carefully applied silicon? I intend to silicon the bath to the
wall during installation anyway. The question is whether I just finish off with very carefully applied silicon bead or some of the B&Q tile trim.
By fitting a batten under the rim I should be able to stop any tearing of the silicon when the bath is loaded.
2. Should I start with a full tile along the bath edge or should I split the wall in half vertically and horizontally and work upwards them downwards
from a batten screwed on at the centre point? I know the latter is the traditional way to do it but my thoughts are that I'd rather have a full
tile at the bottom where I will see it. My total height from bath rim to ceiling is 1745mm so I will have a 287mm tile at the top if I do it this way
(assumes 2mm tile to tile gaps and 3mm tile to bath and tile to ceiling gaps)
3. Is it a good idea to install the bath and mark the position of the row 1 to row 2 joint then take out the bath again and use that mark to attach a
batten and tile from here to the ceiling? It will be a lot easier to work without the bath in place and then it can be put in place afterwards and the
final row of tiles can be fitted after the tile batten has been removed. This also makes damage to the bath from falling tiles or cement less
likely.Thoughts?
4. The bath sides (the skirt I mean) is nicely finished gloss acrylic or plastic covered MDF and it doesn't have any holes in it for screws.
What is the best way to fix this stuff to the bath frame? I know I need to fit a batten to the floor to support the bottom edge and another at the top
to support the top edge. I'll probably go the whole hog and create a frame with a few vertical battens too. Once that's done, what is the
nicest way to fix the skirt without having those ugly number-plate type screws all over the place? Any clever fixings available or should I just use a
moderate (thinking of potential removal later) amount of silicon to stick it in place to the frame? Note that the 4 pieces of the skirt fit together
with pegs and cam locks (Ikea style) so maybe I could get away with only a few carefully selected fixing points.
Any other tips are more than welcome!
Thanks,
Craig.
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HAL 1
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 01:56 PM |
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If you go the silicone route at the tile/bath join use anti mould type, i think i got mine from B & Q. it worked well in my bathroom, we used to
get black mould appearing at regular intervals.
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 02:04 PM |
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i never use those trims against the bath/shower tray. like you say seal with silicone between bath and wall before tiling then again after grouting.
batten is a good idea, essential on some of the really flimsy cheap baths but still half fill the bath with water before siliconing.
with setting it out, you say you've already tiled the basin wall so does that not govern where the tiles go? the general rule for setting out is
to go from centers if it works but there is so many things that effect it you need to do what will look best. like you say a full tile on the bath
with the cut at the top will look better. just try to avoid using cuts less than half a tile. also how does that work out when your tiles reach the
floor?
i always tile with the bath in place. if you are starting with a full tile then there is no need for a batten, check the shape of the bath if starting
with a full tile. even some quite expensive ones are quite bad and might requie trimming to some of the tiles.i cover the bath with a couple of dust
sheets and then a piece of 1/2" ply cut to size. it also gives you somewhere close to hand to put tools.
haven't a clue on your last question, unless the panel is tiled i leave that side of things to the joiner or plumber
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 02:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by HAL 1
If you go the silicone route at the tile/bath join use anti mould type, i think i got mine from B & Q. it worked well in my bathroom, we used to
get black mould appearing at regular intervals.
yes, use proper sanitry grade silicone. i would get it from your tile supplier though. a customer once got some from a DIY store and it was horrible
stuff to use
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froggy
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 02:24 PM |
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fill the bath before starting to tile 
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 02:45 PM |
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I half filled the bath, put some shorts on and stood in the bath to silicone it last time and it hasn't pulled away so far.
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ReMan
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 02:54 PM |
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Fill the bath with water and 2 people
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austin man
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 03:17 PM |
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use masking tape on the tiles and the bath / sink etc when applying the silicone sealant, gently smooth it and remove tape for a neatly finished line
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 05:44 PM |
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problem with that is it leaves a very visible edge to the silicone so you still need to go over it once the tape is removed. also takes a lot
longer.
i put a fairly even bead along and then spray it with a smoothing agent(soapy water does the same) before running my finger along it. the spray stops
any excess pushing out and sticking where you don't want it.
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 07:11 PM |
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Hi,
b&q sell some nifty little magnetic fixing that you can attach to your battens and onto the rear of your panel, to provide hidden fixings.
Regards
Jon
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spewing
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 07:55 PM |
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I do a lot of bathrooms and it sounds like your planning on doing it the way i would fit the bath.
I get the bath level and then screw a decent 2 x1 batten to the wall just under the edge of the bath fixed to every stud or lots of substantial fixing
into block. Then fefit the bath and make sure that it is just touching the batten but not effecting the level of the bath. Check, check and check
again
Take the bath out again and apply a load of silicon to the batten and the wall and refit the bath.
I dont use tile edging at the bath edge. If the seal is going to break its because the bath moves relative to the wall with the floor but if you stop
this movement with the batten the seal isnt going to break.
It is a pain but i tile with the bath in place. I work out my tile lay out depending on a number of factors. The height above the bath to ceiling and
whole tiles or getting a level with other tiles in the room so the joints are all level, windows sills etc etc. The room will usually dictate the
layout.
What i try and avoid at all costs is small strips of tiles in conspicuous places especially at the edge of the bath.
I use plastic packers to give me a 3mm gap between the bath and the tiles and i dont grout this joint. When the grout has set i silicon the joint
getting sillicon right into the joint. You now have a bath sealed to the batten, the wall and the joint between the tiles and bath sealed.
Out of choise i would use cement backer board rather than plaster board just in case the grout fails but i suspect you will be fine.
Persoanly i cant get on with the soapy water spray on silicon but plenty of professional tillers use it. I use masking tape and then get the edge
looking just right with builders wipes that clean up uncured silicon.
If you want a realy top grouting job buy wash boy and a good float
http://www.tradetiler.com/acatalog/Grout_Washing___Cleaning_.html
The ABS bath panels are a real pain. They have no rigidity at all. Usually the baths come wit some spring clips that hold it to the top edge and then
a batten at the bottom. Cut the batten to an L shape to hold the lip of the panel. This assumes that your floor is level to within a reasonable
tolerance to the bath panel otherwise your into cutting the panel which is horrible. Just enough silicon to hold it in place but still remove it if
you need to
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 08:17 PM |
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I have done a few jobs tiling showers in bedsit houses and student places.
Usually the job looks simple (righty ho) but soon discover the nasties, usually tiles on plasterboard, normal as opposed to waterproof adhesive has
been used, and worst of all is those b*****y plastic trims.
I use the cement boards or failing that exterior ply. Good waterproof adhesive and grout. Leave a gap between bath/shoer etc and the bottom course of
tiles, as previous poster 3mm sounds good.
And I tend to use the unibond sanitory silicone, or often the unibond polyurethane sealant/adhesive. Not cheap, but good value as easy to use and
lasts better than cheaper alternatives. That said, I am sure there are plenty of good quality adhesives. I would steer clear of anything that mentions
"trade" as it usually means cheap and fools punters into thinking they are getting quality
And I sometimes use masking tape, the stepped edge can be useful as it stops the thin edge of silicone lifting.
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/2/11 at 09:03 PM |
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you've had it pretty much covered there really, and id agree silicone the bath the the wall, id cover the bath with 3mm ply both the protect it,
to give something more for the tiles to sit on, and too leave a proper gap for silicone to go in afterwards. Id put a whole tile onto the bath but
that might not work with your existing tiles. Blobs of silicone to hold on the bath panel.
And do get a good grade of silicone, its not an area to save money on.
I always use masking tape when siliconing, if you wipe the right amount off then you dont get a lip. If you can use a spray properly it might well be
better (wet finger is nonsense), but as tape works for me ive never bothered with a spray.
[Edited on 13/2/11 by JoelP]
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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craig1410
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 12:06 AM |
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Hi guys,
Sorry for the late reply, I have been reading your posts throughout the day but my hands were usually too dirty to dare touch my keyboard...
Some really good tips amongst the posts and the good news is that it seems I am on the right tracks. A totally different attitude on this forum
compared to some of the tilers forums where nobody seems to be prepared to admit that there is more than one correct answer. Locostbuilders seem to be
happy to contribute most of the time without getting into battles of egos.
A few specific answers to some of the posts:
I got anti-mould silicon. It was a toss up between the Unibond Bath and Shower stuff (£10 odd a tube) and some "trade" stuff from a
Company called Soudal. It is described as Plumbers Sanitary Silicon. It was £6 odd a tube. One of you made the comment to avoid the
"trade" stuff but I felt that the Unibond stuff was making me pay for the flashy label and brand and £10 a tube was a lot. I can take the
trade stuff back unless someone tells me it's okay? Anyone heard of Soudal?
Bigfoot, I have tiled the basin wall but it is completely separate from the other two walls so it won't matter if the tiles don't line up.
I'll ditch the tile trim. Now this decision is made I know it is the right decision. B&Q refunds department will get a visit tomorrow...
ReMan - LOL, I like your thinking!! Never crossed my mind.....much!
I've had some practice lately at applying silicon cleanly. I find the masking tape is a good idea initially but once I do the first pass with my
finger to remove excess and push the silicon in to the gap, I take the tape off and use a soapy finger to smooth it down. As long as you use equal
pressure and angle then it seems to work out okay. Thanks for the tips on this though.
Slingshot - interesting regarding the magnetic fixings - I never saw any sign of them. I will look for them tomorrow.
Spewing - really good write up there, much obliged! Pretty much confirming what I was planning but with some fine details which I will be sure to
note. My side panels aren't ABS, they are MDF 15mm panels with white plastic (or gellcoat or acrylic) coating giving a white gloss finish. They
are really nicely made so I don't want to go drilling holes in them. I think the frame + silicon (or magnets) approach is the way to go. I
bought some 44x34mm planed timber today which will make a very sturdy frame.
Cliftyhanger - this job was never going to be easy as the plumbing in this 10 year old Barratt house if appalling! The house had lead contamination
when originally built and the pipes had to be replaced so the floors are all uneven now and pipes are rattling around etc. I stripped out the lot and
re-plumbed it with solder fittings and then properly repaired the floor and installed a plywood subfloor. I then laid some vinyl and started on the
installation of the appliances. Been at it now for about 6 weeks of evenings and most weekends. Starting to become tedious now... BUT I'm nearly
done!! 
Joelp, yes I'm starting with a full tile next to the bath but I decided to use a batten and start on the 2nd row of tiles. This allows me to
remove the bath and work more easily. I left a 3mm gap plus a tile height plus another 2mm gap before fixing my batten. Measured very carefully and
double/triple checked. I'll let you know tomorrow if I got this right.... 
Thanks again to all who posted, another triumph for the Locostbuilders forum!!
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