Kwik
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 08:20 PM |
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sequential boxes
why arnt they more common in cars, i think they should be used by every car in the world, because i want one for my project but dont want a bike
engine or pay a load of money for an ex ferrari box. i know you can buy upgrade box's for cars, but is there a small car that has a sequential
box as standard?
or maybe could you modify a automatic box?
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mcerd1
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 08:30 PM |
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I think cost is the main issue, but the likes of the VAG cars with DSG boxes are getting more common
the likes of quaife make sequential boxes in 5 and 6 spd. flavours as replacments for type 9 boxes (not cheap mind)
btw - are you thinking about sequential or 'triptronic' ??
you still need to use the clutch on sequential ones - 'triptronic' (or whatever other brand names there are) are just a modern auto that
changes when you tell it to rather than when it wants to
(at least thats how I understand it)
[Edited on 15/2/2011 by mcerd1]
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Howlor
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 08:32 PM |
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I'm suprised someone hasn't had a go at using the internals from a bike engine in a bespoke gearbox housing.
Steve
[Edited on 15/2/11 by Howlor]
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se7en
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Howlor
I'm suprised someone hasn't had a go at using the internals from a bike engine in a bespoke gearbox housing.
Steve
[Edited on 15/2/11 by Howlor]
Now there's an idea! 
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Stuart_B
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 08:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by se7en
quote:
Originally posted by Howlor
I'm suprised someone hasn't had a go at using the internals from a bike engine in a bespoke gearbox housing.
Steve
[Edited on 15/2/11 by Howlor]
Now there's an idea!
i have all ready thought about that to use an engine i like, in the kit car, still a working progress( well put on the self with the other projects)
lol
stu
black mk indy, 1.6pinto on cbr600 bike carb's.
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Theshed
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 09:10 PM |
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There is very little magic in a sequential shift system. Essentially there is a drum or disk that shifts the selector forks around. With a bit of
engineering any gearbox can be converted to a sequential shift. It is not a matter of playing with the internals (gears and syncros) just the
mechanism for moving the forks. However.... converting to dog engagement for quick shifting is somewhat trickier.
There are quite a few conversion kits out there if you look.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 09:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Howlor
I'm suprised someone hasn't had a go at using the internals from a bike engine in a bespoke gearbox housing.
Steve
[Edited on 15/2/11 by Howlor]
You can get stand alone motorcycle gearboxes, such as those used by Harley Davidson.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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hughpinder
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 09:21 PM |
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I believe lussomotors(spelling?) in portugal were developing a sequential mechanism to fit the type 9 (and other boxes), that was rumoured to be in
the 3-400 euro price range. I don't know if it ever made it it into production though.
When I had the gearbox for my honda rebuilt I was chatting to the guy that did it, and he said he could convert any manual box to sequential for about
£1500.
Regards
Hugh
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Kwik
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 10:14 PM |
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there must be a way of controlling when an automatic shifts gear, then just hook that up to a leaver? im not actually sure how they work, i assume
some sort of centrepedal mechanism? but surely it would already have whatever you need yo shift gears in a H shape already there, and then a mechanism
that controls at what RPM to change...
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loggyboy
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 10:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Howlor
I'm suprised someone hasn't had a go at using the internals from a bike engine in a bespoke gearbox housing.
[Edited on 15/2/11 by Howlor]
Could the answer/reason be torque? Alot of car engines (especially those likely to be used with sequential box) would put out a fair amount of ft/lbs,
compared to bike engines. By the time you uprate the internals of a bike box, you would probly be looking at the cost of a quafie item?
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skodaman
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 10:41 PM |
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I doubt cost is the real reason. If they were mass produced they wouldn't be any dearer. Even the cheapest motorbikes have them. Basically
for everyday driving I wouldn't want one. You can't skip gears and if you do an emergency stop from 100mph (for example) in sixth it
takes forever to get back into first gear. Finding neutral can be dodgy and reverse is an added complication. Faster shorter travel gearchanges is
their only real advantage.
Skodaman
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mcerd1
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 10:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwik
there must be a way of controlling when an automatic shifts gear, then just hook that up to a leaver? im not actually sure how they work, i assume
some sort of centrepedal mechanism? but surely it would already have whatever you need yo shift gears in a H shape already there, and then a mechanism
that controls at what RPM to change...
I'm sure there is a way - you gan get aftermarket controlers for a few of the modern ECU controled ones (but I doubt they are cheap)
but why would you want an auto ? (even a modified one)
they are mostly bigger, heavier and waste more power than the equivelent manual box
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 11:40 PM |
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being one who rides a motor bike almost every day I can honestly say I'd not want a gearbox like that in a car.
It's one thing being able to rock the bike if you have not got it in first at the lights (usually due to stopping quickly) but in a car it would
be utter PITA. Yeah their quicker through the gears but I'd rather have an autobox like my car which is just as fast at changing if not faster
and in sports mode has all the engine braking of a manual box.
Had a shot of a new car that had an 5-speed auto or use paddles on the steering wheel, well those paddles were just joke, utterly usless espesially
when cornering, I just selected the auto box which was quite nice tbh
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 11:42 PM |
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I've been planning to robotise a manual for a while, doesnt seem too difficult - just needs a couple of longish travel solenoids which'll
add a bit of weight and an automated clutch.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/2/11 at 11:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
but why would you want an auto ? (even a modified one)
they are mostly bigger, heavier and waste more power than the equivelent manual box
Well they free your hands completely, are bliss in traffic, can do hillstarts at any incline without rolling back even in reverse (handy when towing),
are super fast through the gears with full power being applied constantly even when changing gear, no clutch to burn out or slip, have instant power
as soon as you press the pedal (try racing one at the lights), plus they tend to be able to handle huge amounts of torque due to the load being spread
over 3 cogs rather than one. They arn't much heavier really rwd ones can be very compact. If you want to do a mid engined car there is no crazy
gear lever linkages all the way from the back, all you need is a couple of cable.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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James
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| posted on 16/2/11 at 12:44 AM |
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For those interested.
A mechanic mate of mine has just taken delivery of a 1.1 or 1.3 Corsa that has, believe it or not, a semi-auto gearbox! 
I'm not sure if it's a lever or buttons or summat else that you use to actually control the shift but it proves it can be done even on
cheap/crap cars!
It also has a gearbox ECU.
He says the shifter mechanism is driven by windscreen wiper motors.
Cheers,
James
P.S. What about all those yank cars in films where the gear shift is done from a tiny lever behind the wheel like an indicator lever?
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 16/2/11 at 12:49 AM |
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The humble Smart car has a robotised manual gearbox and clutch. A very, very slow robot.
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hughpinder
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| posted on 16/2/11 at 08:40 AM |
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I'm guessing that if you are clever enough, a cable operated gearbox (like the one I have from the mondeo) would not be too hard to do this to.
There are 2 cables, each with cable extended/centre/retracted locations. Some ratchet mechanism on the gear handle and 2 * multi lobe cams to set the
cables in the right position for each gear should see it done? Maybe? Don't know if it would be unusably heavy to change gear though, and
it'd have to have something so it couldnt rotate into the next gear etc.
ETA - I'm not sure about soleniod/motor driven gearchanges - just another bitof electronics to go wrong IMO!
Regards
Hugh
[Edited on 16/2/11 by hughpinder]
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