iank
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 07:08 AM |
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Only the little people pay taxes
From the Guardian, though no doubt it will be quickly buried.
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Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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v8kid
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 07:16 AM |
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Bet you don't see a similar article inthe Telegraph 
Question is is it true? After all the author does have an axe to grind.
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 07:19 AM |
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It would be interesting to see what would happen in the courts if we did what they're doing to avoid paying on the basis that they're
getting away with it, why not me?
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mark chandler
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 07:39 AM |
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Reading that he wants them to pay more tax because they have increased their wealth, even though they would have paid tax accumulating more money. On
that basis everyone on here that owns a house should have it valued every year, if it has gone up by £10,000 then we should be paying £2,500
additional tax as an example... its rubbish IMHO
You will always have people earning lots of money, fact.
People who run companies and get paid well, they will also be putting huge amounts of money back into the economy, maybe as a ratio not as high as
other people but vastly more than anyone else and employing people.
Some self-employed people have 'company cars', some have houses owned by the companies and all should be paying a decent accountant to
ensure they maximise any tax benefits, I really do not have a problem with this either.
So where's the gripe, written by an MP who enjoys tax free lunches and booze in the houses of parliament!!!
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iank
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 07:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
Bet you don't see a similar article inthe Telegraph
Question is is it true? After all the author does have an axe to grind.
Agreed, very true.
But it seems obvious to me that to increase your wealth in the middle of a recession by on average £51.6 million a year through 3 years of
recession can only mean you knew about it enough in advance and managed to take measures to ensure you made money off it, rather than lose millions on
your investments.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 07:46 AM |
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The other thing to remember is that people with that type of wealth will relocate rather than pay the increase tax. So not only can they afford to
hire the best accountants & lawyers (who will pay tax on their earnings) but if it all gets a bit tight they will just bugger off taking their
investments with them.
I bet that if you tax these people any more you would actually have a net decrease in tax revenues. In Meacher's utopian socialist world it
would work....in the real world it is unlikely you would see an extra penny.
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iank
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 07:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Reading that he wants them to pay more tax because they have increased their wealth, even though they would have paid tax accumulating more money. On
that basis everyone on here that owns a house should have it valued every year, if it has gone up by £10,000 then we should be paying £2,500
additional tax as an example... its rubbish IMHO
You will always have people earning lots of money, fact.
People who run companies and get paid well, they will also be putting huge amounts of money back into the economy, maybe as a ratio not as high as
other people but vastly more than anyone else and employing people.
Some self-employed people have 'company cars', some have houses owned by the companies and all should be paying a decent accountant to
ensure they maximise any tax benefits, I really do not have a problem with this either.
So where's the gripe, written by an MP who enjoys tax free lunches and booze in the houses of parliament!!!
While I agree completely that people who benefit the economy deserve to win big, the people right up at the top are taking huge pay rises and bonuses
even as their companies lose money. Even their shareholders (big banks and pension funds) are now voting against the most egregious pay settlements
(see Aviva as the latest).
Do you actually believe that the people on the rich list actually pay tax at the same rate are you and I? Even George Osborne claims to be surprised
how little they pay!
And as for putting money back into the economy - that's working REALLY well right now isn't it as all the big companies are hoarding the
money the make.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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v8kid
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 08:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
And as for putting money back into the economy - that's working REALLY well right now isn't it as all the big companies are hoarding the
money the make.
For all the arguements there are some indisputable facts and I guess thats a defining one. No philanthropy here its every company for themselves!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 08:48 AM |
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I seem to remember when Al Fayed was after a passport his Tax bill (be that income tax, corporation tax VAT whi knows) for that year had been
something like £100m.. Fair enough you must have earnt it to have to pay it.
What gets my goat is these people will be on massive bonuses because they've made more profit than lastyear.. And how have they usually done
that, by putting somebody out of work to reduce costs, cutting maintenance and safety they've lucky to not be caught out on yet etc.
Horrid Robot tills that are popping up everywhere, that must be atleast 2 or 4 full time till operators out of work when wouldn't really do any
harm to make slightly less profits that year and keep the personal toutch and food on a family's table.. This is where there "we're
all in it together" idea falls down largest to me.
This relentless drive for more and more is probably what's got us in such a deep Hole in the first place!
What's wrong with making the same profit as least year or maybe even less, it's still a profit ffs! And it might have helped keep
100's or 1000's of the dole queue and made everybody's life's a little easier.
[Edited on 9/5/12 by MkIndy7]
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A1
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 08:59 AM |
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If someone works hard and earns millions good on them, i hate the view that 'they have more money they should give it all to us' and I
love how the article implies that they could sort out the depression, they wouldnt make a scratch on the countrys 1 TRILLION public debt.
If you think about it, was it the loaded people who borrowed money for houses they couldnt afford etc? the chances are they dont take any benefits out
the system too. theyll be spending money right now, and helping to keep things moving, albeit very slowly.
If everybody has to 'pay their fair share' as the government all keep saying, surely everybody regardless of income should pay the same
amount of tax?
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flibble
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 09:04 AM |
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quote:
What's wrong with making the same profit as least year or maybe even less, it's still a profit ffs!
Ahh yes, the great profit chase..
I got made redundant a while ago as the (large international) company said they had lost £18m that year, sounds reasonable if not unfortunate (for
me). This of course changes when you realise that they had made £18m less profit than what they had projected at the start of the year, can't
remember the exact figures now but it was close to "projected profits of £300m, actual profit, £282m", still more than last years £260m
profit but somehow considered a loss.. 
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hughpinder
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 09:22 AM |
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The higher you make tax, the more effort its worth putting in to avoid it.
I work in the pharmaceutical industry. All our products (final active ingredients) are sent to switzerland where the tablets/capsules are made. We
'make' just enough money to cover costs and pay minimal uk corperation tax (a few million per year). The tablets etc we make are sold for
about £2.5billion/pa. The company pays swiss tax on this as thats where the final product is made. The swiss tax pharma companies at 15%(the product
is easily portable/small volume), the UK at 33%. Guess why we don't press the tablets in the uk? If the uk government REDUCED tax on pharma
companies to (say) 18% this would become uneconomic to do, and the uk government wold reap 18% of 2.5 billion (450 million) extra tax - just from one
medium sized site from one pharma company. They don't do this because it would cause enormeous bleating about how it benefits the rich at the
disadvantage of the poor... The same could be applied to individuals - up to say quarter of a million per year - tax as now, above that gradually
reduce the tax rate to some rate just above what you pay in the channel islands or wherever, so its not economic to be offshore. Even if this rate was
15%, 15% of a billionaires income is worth having compared to them going offshore to avoid paying anything.
Just my point of view of course.
Hugh
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Simon
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 10:02 AM |
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I like all the "top 5%" of the earners blah blah arguments.
The one that's genereally ignored because most people don't like it, is that the top 5% of wealthiest people in the UK contribute 44% of
the countries taxes, the bottom 5% less than 2%.
Chew on that, as they say. I doubt that fact will ever appear in the Comicardian!
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-4.pdf.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 9/5/12 by Simon]
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 10:07 AM |
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During the 60s & 70s the tax regime was to tax the higher earners hard. And this is the era which gave us the phrase "Tax Exile".
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ditchlewis
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 12:02 PM |
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Many good points and heated discussions.
I sit slap bang in the middle. I believe in one tax rate for all and no loop holes.
Had a discussion with dad the other week. Now I'm a 40% tax payer but my Bro in law has a far bigger income than I but only pays about 15%.
Officially he pays himself six grand a year and the rest is dividends from his business and a good accountant. I believe in one rate for all and no
loop holes be that 10% 20% or 50% then everyone can see a fair system.
Ditch
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 12:37 PM |
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Oh dear, yet another commentator who doesn't understand the difference between debt and deficit, making most of his 'calculations'
entirely wrong.
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morcus
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 12:38 PM |
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The problem with one tax rate for all is your moving the tax burden onto the poorest people whilst easing it for the rich. I don't agree with
what the article is suggesting, why should these people give us their money that they've presumably already paid tax on?
I'm all for closing loop holes and making sure people arn't getting away without paying taxes they should be paying.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 03:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Horrid Robot tills that are popping up everywhere, that must be atleast 2 or 4 full time till operators out of work when wouldn't really do any
harm to make slightly less profits that year and keep the personal toutch and food on a family's table.. This is where there "we're
all in it together" idea falls down largest to me.
In this way we should be voting with our feet (and wallets)
If you don't like them never use them. I personally think they're great when you're just getting a couple of things.
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Rod Ends
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 posted on 9/5/12 at 03:41 PM |
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Michael Meacher: lefty w*nker hypocrite
quote:
The many homes of Michael Meacher
Two years ago he condemned owners of second homes, now he has nine himself
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 9/5/12 at 04:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Horrid Robot tills that are popping up everywhere, that must be atleast 2 or 4 full time till operators out of work when wouldn't really do any
harm to make slightly less profits that year and keep the personal toutch and food on a family's table.. This is where there "we're
all in it together" idea falls down largest to me.
In this way we should be voting with our feet (and wallets)
If you don't like them never use them. I personally think they're great when you're just getting a couple of things.
Believe me I do, but some places like B&Q there is often no other choice!.
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Simon
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| posted on 10/5/12 at 11:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ditchlewis
Had a discussion with dad the other week. Now I'm a 40% tax payer but my Bro in law has a far bigger income than I but only pays about 15%.
Officially he pays himself six grand a year and the rest is dividends from his business and a good accountant. I believe in one rate for all and no
loop holes be that 10% 20% or 50% then everyone can see a fair system.
Ditch
He prob pays approx 20% corporation tax on his dividends (and prob about £2/month NI) if his accontant is any good.
ATB
Simon
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