stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 3/4/03 at 01:45 PM |
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fuel filler caps
David recently posted about vent valves on fuel caps, and I wondered if anyone can clear the fog around this.
My SVA manual is a coulel years old. It mentions nowt about fuel issues.
I have heard that a car must be submitted with a full tank of fuel so that it can be checked for leaks. There is nothing in my manual on these lines,
but I can see the logic.
There also is nowt about specific fuel caps.
Traditional caps have an air hole for venting. More modern cars have some kinda valve in the cap.
COntrasting stangely with this is my wifes new megane, which has no cap as such.
There is a sprung 'gate' over the filler kneck. Its not air tight.
Thats it.
When you close the door over the filler, there is a really shabby looking 'plumbers plunger' kinda plasic thing that presses vaguely over
the general area of the filler hole. I cant see how this prevents leaks on an inverted car.
So, as far as you guys know, what kinda fuel filler arrangements are compolsory?
atb
steve
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 4/4/03 at 12:12 PM |
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Not really an answer for Steve, but might be useful to the rest of us builders:
Most of the big dealers like Demon Tweeks, etc. advertise a flush 'sort of aero' petrol filler cap for around £45 + VAT - but when you try
to buy one they say that they're not available for a few weeks.
When speaking to Mocal today, it became apparent that they make these caps - and they sell them for £38 + VAT. The reason they're not shipping
them is that they've changed the design from a plastic 'bung' to an aluminium one - and they're not quite ready. They call it
the "Smarty" cap.
I've just bought one with a plastic bung (as shown on their website) for £38 including VAT - special price as it isn't the latest, and
they didn't have the rubber gasket to go behind it (I can live without that).
If you're interested, have a look at their web site on
http://www.thinkauto.com/
You could try asking for Matthew - he said that they offer discounts for clubs (LocostBuilders Club?  )
It's worth looking at their site, if only to see the mark-up that other dealers put on their products...
David
[Edited on 4/4/03 by David Jenkins]
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bob
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| posted on 4/4/03 at 03:42 PM |
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Think automotive are just up the road from me in Isleworth,and yes it is worth looking at the prices.
They have been very helpfull.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 5/4/03 at 11:14 PM |
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no one using filler caps then.....gas powered cars? 
atb
steve
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MK9R
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 06:35 AM |
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Not got that far yet, still haven't got a fuel tamk to connect it to yet!
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 09:13 AM |
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I have both!
However, I wanna make sure im not up for a certain fail with the filler I have.
At the end of the day, the default will be to use what I have. Im sure it wont be the only thing needing attention after SVA and I can always put
something crappy and compliant on to pass, then put old one back.
atb
Steve
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 09:42 AM |
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Try your local SVA Centre, or the SVA office in Wales. Manual not with me so can't supply number and name of the guy I've spoken to in
Swansea. They can be quite helpful.
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Nick Davison
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 11:00 AM |
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David
How big is the filler cap you bought from Mocal?
They list 1.75", 2" etc which I expect is the pipe diameter for connection to the tank, are all cap diameters the same?
Nick
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 11:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Davison
David
How big is the filler cap you bought from Mocal?
They list 1.75", 2" etc which I expect is the pipe diameter for connection to the tank, are all cap diameters the same?
Nick
I can give you the exact dimensions in the next day or so - waiting for delivery!
If my memory is OK, the outside is 85mm diam and the funnel neck is 52mm/2". They give most of the details on their website, apart from the
funnel diameter.
BTW: don't look at the aero caps - look further down the page for the "smarty" caps.
David
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david walker
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 08:19 PM |
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Steve, I read the same post with interest as I have heard nothing about vent valves on filler caps etc. My filler is within my boot space and received
only a quick look from my SVA tester - Its a Spitfire, non locking, quick release unit of about 20 years vintage.
My understanding of the "full tank" is for weight purposes. Go to the section that covers weights etc at the back. They check your axle
weights, then check your calcs you have submitted with your SVA application and from that work out your brake efficiency requirements ... Fuel leaks
are obviously checked for at the tank and throughout the car.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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andyd
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 08:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I can give you the exact dimensions in the next day or so - waiting for delivery!
David, when it arrives could you take a picture of it showing it at an angle i.e. not just the fancy bit  and post it here.
It's yet another little thing that I'm sure everyone will benefit from knowing how much, where from and what's it like.
Hope that's not too cheeky
Andy
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 10:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by david walker
Steve, I read the same post with interest as I have heard nothing about vent valves on filler caps etc. My filler is within my boot space and received
only a quick look from my SVA tester - Its a Spitfire, non locking, quick release unit of about 20 years vintage.
My understanding of the "full tank" is for weight purposes. Go to the section that covers weights etc at the back. They check your axle
weights, then check your calcs you have submitted with your SVA application and from that work out your brake efficiency requirements ... Fuel leaks
are obviously checked for at the tank and throughout the car.
I have an Aston type cap and kneck from Europa..... PCH2L ...... if it fails i will fir summat temporarily that wont.
lots else to worry about I recon.
cheers
steve
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bob
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 10:28 PM |
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Steve
I've got a mocal screwcap in ally from thinkautomotive,i'm fitting a breather pipe on the tank as in my archive.
I've seen a car go through SVA with this set up,so thats the way i'm going.
If this fails rally design and merlin motorsport sell a non return valve at a price,so all is not lost.
It seems to be another grey area as the manual states the tank should not leak,just depends on which way up it is i suppose
[Edited on 7/4/03 by bob]
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flyingkiwi
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| posted on 7/4/03 at 11:17 PM |
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Has anyone tried a motorbike fuel cap? have been offered one from a suzuki bandit for a fiver, and guessing that its been blatting about on a bike for
a couple of years, it should do the trick?
Cheers Chris
It Runs!!!!! Bring on the SVA!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 8/4/03 at 06:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bob
If this fails rally design and merlin motorsport sell a non return valve at a price,so all is not lost.
Again, look at the Mocal site - they make the non-return valves for everyone else - and they charge less. They will also spend time discussing your
needs (as they did with me).
cheers,
David
PS: Andyd - yes, I'll take a picture when it arrives!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 8/4/03 at 07:26 PM |
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Think Automotive (Mocal) fuel filler pictures
As promised...
 
The filler came with the hose pushed on (they used the assembly to hold the screws, keys, etc.). I would have taken it off for the pictures - but it
didn't want to come off! It seemed a good idea to leave it where it was and simply fix it with a jubilee clip. You'll just have to
imagine the 1.5" of ali tube under the rubber hose... 
Total diameter is 85mm, hole diameter is 57mm (a generous 2.25", and it takes 52mm/2" hose. It sits about 3mm about the surface of the
body skin (which is why I'm not stressed about the non-rounded edges - it has to be 5mm+ to warrant the proper radiused edge).
BTW - that rubber hose is EXPENSIVE! About £1 per inch, and that was the cheapest I found.
Final photo - I also bought a tank vent from Think, their model "6JIC in line", which by very good fortune screws straight into my PTM
tank's vent hole! Lucky, or what! It's the shiny red thing in the photo - the bit on the top is a screw-on hose adaptor.
Hope this helps,
David
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Rorty
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| posted on 9/4/03 at 04:24 AM |
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JIC fittings are US mitilary designations, commonly used in aircraft and high end motorsport fittings.
They're just UNF threads with a taper seat nose, and are sized by "dash" numbers:
- 4 is 7/16" UNF (20 TPI)
-6 is 9/16" UNF (18 TPI)
-8 is 3/4" UNF (16 TPI) et. etc.
You can also get bolt-in tank valves, ones with a barb at each end, and also with just about any pipe thread imaginable.
Do fit one. 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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bob
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| posted on 9/4/03 at 01:16 PM |
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David
I've just got the screw on hose adaptor as a vent with a piece of pipe up and over the side of tank,i think i'll change it now i've
seen yours and visit matthew at think auto again.
How much of my hard earned will i have release from the very very thin wallet i now have ?
[Edited on 9/4/03 by bob]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 9/4/03 at 01:36 PM |
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The official price is £38 + VAT, but they seem very open to discounting!
For example, I bought the set with the old plastic plug instead of the new ali one they're waiting for, and paid £38 including VAT. He also
gave me a big discount on all the other bits & pieces I bought.
He said that they give discounts to club members - "LocostBuilders", "MK Owners" - the choice is yours!
cheers,
DJ
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Alan B
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| posted on 9/4/03 at 01:38 PM |
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What?.....nearly spent your 250 already Bob?....
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bob
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| posted on 9/4/03 at 03:15 PM |
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Alan
£250x4x4 more like,and i seem to be that amount worse off in the last tax year.
DAVID
yes they do like to keep the cutomer happy at think auto,i also like going therte as chaters the motoring book people are a short walk away too.
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Jasper
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| posted on 10/4/03 at 09:47 AM |
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Thanks to Bob, I've just bought a lovely Mocal solid ali screw-on filler cap with a 6in straight piece of hose and stainless clips for about £23
inc. from Think Auto. I didn't want it through the bodywork, just straight up inside the chassis - easier filling with a jerry can at track
days.
Nice chaps and a lovely piece of kit.
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andyd
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| posted on 25/7/03 at 07:05 PM |
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Just in case people are still looking for the aero style fuel filler caps I've just got one from Demon Tweeks at about £60 all in. The product
code in their catalogue is CAP3ZF but they know it as MOCCAP3ZF so I'm assuming it's a Mocal one. Also they don't have it on their
website but they know about it if you phone the order through.
Pictures on my photo archive... filler1, 2 & 3.
Andy
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Peteff
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| posted on 25/7/03 at 11:15 PM |
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My filler cap is from a mini, I used the neck from a mini tank welded to my home made tank with the filler inside the lockable boot. The full tank of
petrol at SVA is for the all up weight Steve, not for leaks. The tester never asked for the boot to be opened as he could see from underneath.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 08:00 PM |
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thanks for that peteff.
If mine fails cos its external edges, then im gonna mount it in the boot and refit it outside after SVA!
Plenty of time to worry about that tho!
atb
steve
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