alanr
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:31 AM |
|
|
clutch use
Hopefully none of you see this as a dum question but how often do you guys use your clutch
A couple of biker friends say forget the clutch when changing up - only use it when going down the box
I've been practising but it doesn't like it - only into 5th and 6th and at high revs
What experience and advice have you got - clutch or no clutch
A
|
|
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:39 AM |
|
|
no clutch changing up, just accelerate, lift slightly and hit the next gear...
tentativity is most peoples problem with a clutchless shift...
If it still doesnt want to do it smothly, then make sure you have a positive gearshift with no slop... 1st to 2nd may be the only problem one if you
are doing it right
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
Catpuss
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:54 AM |
|
|
Cack handed clutchles up shifts can nadger your gear box, often rounding the dogs off so that it falls out of gear.
I personally always use clutch upshifts on my bike, but then its a big twin. On my old 600 it was more easier as it wasn't so lumpy.
What I would do is apply a bit of pressure on the selector then off the power a bit whilst doing the up shift. On a Suzuki gear box this is really
sweet & smooth.
You could try one of the bike based electronic ignition interruptors (can't remember the proper name). With those they have a microswitch or the
like that cuts the ignition on up shift. The result is you can keep the throttle open (well actually its recomended to do that with the ignition cut).
|
|
|
smart51
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 10:07 AM |
|
|
I use my clutch for slow up-shifts. Big throttle inputs - lift - change is good for clutchless shifts but once at a steady speed I use the clutch.
I also use the clutch for down shifts, pulling away and sitting at lights. If I select neutral when stationary, the gearbox clangs back into 1st.
|
|
|
Paul G
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 12:39 PM |
|
|
I found this helpful:
http://www.hewland.com/svga/help.htm
|
|
|
alanr
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 01:57 PM |
|
|
well thanks guys -- I tend to agree with Smart51 as that is what I've experienced so far but I'll have a look at the gearshift and maybe
do a bit of adjusting and make sure I've not got any slop
Reading the link from Paul is very interesting and with that knowledge will continue practising
A
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 04:25 PM |
|
|
That method from hewland is the best way to bend selector forks and wear the drum on a bike gearbox...
You should not apply any pressure to the gear mechanism before you come off the throttle...
If you have trouble, buy a quick-shifter to cut the ignition and that will unload the dogs.. it also allows flat shifting... saving some 10 feet per
gearchange!
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 04:37 PM |
|
|
As said, just lift off as you bash at the lever on the way up. When going slower, ie not flat out, i tend to use the clutch but still change quickly.
I always use the clutch on the way down, and try to use neutral when sat in traffic.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
zetec7
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 05:01 PM |
|
|
I'd use the clutch. Remember that the car that you have the engine and trans in weighs at least twice what the trans was designed to move
around. What might be okay on a motorcycle is NOT okay in a car with the same box. Read the recent threads - how many have transmission problems?
Treat that transmission with TLC if you don't want to be changing it frequently! Remember, it's doing twice the work it was built for.
It's much like doing drag-race (mash the throttle to redline and slide your foot sideways off the clutch) shifts in your tin top on EVERY shift.
How long would it last, do you think?? BTW, I've been riding motorcycles professionally for over 20 years...and I use the clutch on every
shift. Of course, I maintain my own bike...and I've NEVER had to repair a trans, or replace a clutch!
|
|
|
Coose
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 05:08 PM |
|
|
You only need to use it on up-changes when going slowly. The loads on the transmission are not twice that in the bike, but maybe 1 1/4 times that due
to the reduction in gearing. Most transmission problems tend to be down to the life that the motor has had in the bike, i.e. wheelies and poor
up-changes from first to second when pointing skyward!
I've had to change gearboxes in bikes after such use (just had to replace gears in my 1972 Yamaha XS650 due to worn dogs) and the bits
aren't expensive at the end of the day - £40-£70 per gear and you may need to only change a couple if it ever comes to that.
The best thing you can do is make sure you have some sort of shock damping in your prop-shaft, i.e. a TRT or drive donut etc....
You bought a sequential box for a reason, so go and enjoy it!  
Spin 'er off Well...
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 06:39 PM |
|
|
i basicaly agree with smart. In my case im only ever on track, so it equates to a few laps using the clutch to warm it all up , then its just hard and
fast all the way. I dont preload the lever at all. I jump completely off the throttle for literally a fraction of a second (as in, off full throttle
for less than half a second including travel time) and crack it into the next gear. The engine wont feel any more pain than it would in a bike because
its the unchanged rotary mass of the engine that the gearbox is moving.
[Edited on 11/10/06 by JoelP]
|
|
|
mad dad
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 08:27 PM |
|
|
useful info how many of you select neutral when at traffic lights and similar as i've heard its bad to sit in 1st gear with clutch in - sorry
did not mean to nick the thread but thought it a similar related type question???? cheers
|
|
|
dilley
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
depends whats in front and how quick you want to get away!
I normally select neutral rather than dropping in to 1st.
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
I could sit in 1st, but I have a hydraulic clutch so no cables to stretch. Also gives you a moment or two to move your feet about a bit without doing
any damage.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 08:31 PM |
|
|
clutch-less up shifts in all but the steadiest of driving modes here, always go for neutral when stood,
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 08:47 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by zetec7
I'd use the clutch. Remember that the car that you have the engine and trans in weighs at least twice what the trans was designed to move
around. What might be okay on a motorcycle is NOT okay in a car with the same box. Read the recent threads - how many have transmission problems?
Treat that transmission with TLC if you don't want to be changing it frequently! Remember, it's doing twice the work it was built for.
It's much like doing drag-race (mash the throttle to redline and slide your foot sideways off the clutch) shifts in your tin top on EVERY shift.
How long would it last, do you think?? BTW, I've been riding motorcycles professionally for over 20 years...and I use the clutch on every
shift. Of course, I maintain my own bike...and I've NEVER had to repair a trans, or replace a clutch!
There is no need to use a clutch on an upshift, it does nothing that lifting off the throttle doesnt do, ie unload the dogs...
Once the dogs are unloaded it matters not a jot...
And thats in 20 years of racing, 250 karts, motocross, BSB, Sidecars and powerbikes...
And I also have never had to replace a gearbox...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 08:48 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
i basicaly agree with smart. In my case im only ever on track, so it equates to a few laps using the clutch to warm it all up , then its just hard and
fast all the way. I dont preload the lever at all. I jump completely off the throttle for literally a fraction of a second (as in, off full throttle
for less than half a second including travel time) and crack it into the next gear. The engine wont feel any more pain than it would in a bike because
its the unchanged rotary mass of the engine that the gearbox is moving.
[Edited on 11/10/06 by JoelP]
Correct, and the correct way to shift...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
Coose
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:02 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
There is no need to use a clutch on an upshift, it does nothing that lifting off the throttle doesnt do, ie unload the dogs...
Once the dogs are unloaded it matters not a jot...
And thats in 20 years of racing, 250 karts, motocross, BSB, Sidecars and powerbikes...
And I also have never had to replace a gearbox...
Yep, absolutely correct Mr G!
Ooooh, you raced BSB? When and what?
Spin 'er off Well...
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:21 PM |
|
|
I agree with what some of the other guys say! A few thousand miles on bikes and I I never use the clutch for fast up-changes. The only exceptions I
can think of would be when hammering about in the rain. And stamping up the gears on a wet corner!!!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 12/10/06 at 04:01 AM |
|
|
Coose
I was a Chief Tech for Grafters Suzuki...
GSXR 1000 about 3-4 years ago...
I raced 125 & 250 Long Circuit Karts, and Motoross and was technician in other disciplines..
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
zxrlocost
|
| posted on 12/10/06 at 08:04 AM |
|
|
slight grip on the gear lever ready then of the accel knock into gear then back on accel
traffic lights leave in first gear clutch in never caused me any problems
also I couldnt get neutral anyway very well as my paddle shift was so closely geared
|
PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
|
alanr
|
| posted on 12/10/06 at 08:26 AM |
|
|
thanks for the many comments, really good - going back to an earlier comment - mine clangs when going into 1st as was described but mine also clangs
when going fron 1st to 2nd - anybody else have the same??
A
[Edited on 12/10/06 by alanr]
|
|
|
zxrlocost
|
| posted on 12/10/06 at 09:32 AM |
|
|
they all clang mate theres nothing to absorb the impact unless you buy a trt prop which has a rubber sleeve in it
dont DO clutchless upshifts from first to second
dont worry to much just thrash the bleep of it
|
PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
|
alanr
|
| posted on 12/10/06 at 09:35 AM |
|
|
neat answer --- thanks
A
|
|
|
RichieC
|
| posted on 12/10/06 at 04:09 PM |
|
|
Always an interesting topic this one as people always have different views.
My two pence worth. Do what you feel is right for you and youre box. By that I mean, if you dont feel confident on shifting without the clutch, try
a bit at a time (noting its not easy/advised between 1st and 2nd).
Id definately avoid putting any pressure on the lever prior to shifting and just relying on the weight shift of lifting off to change.
Also, like any dog box, I wouldnt recommend leaving it sitting in gear with the clutch depressed. The vibration through the car is felt in the gears
and it can only lead to premature wear. If you cant easily find N then do the best you can, but Ive seen rally car boxes damaged by nothing more than
sitting in gear at the lights - I was always given a clip round the lug for doing it!
I had a GSXR 750 which suffered from jumping out of gear which when rebuilt was put down to non mechanical sympathy by a previous owner. I wouldnt
risk shifting quickly until youre totally happy with how your motor reacts - its not funny hitting a false neutral and planting the pedal.
[Edited on 12/10/06 by RichieC]
|
|
|
