786evo8
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 12:12 PM |
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CA18DET build.
Hello all,
Today is the day i have finally had enough balls to put my money where my mouth is... I've put down my deposit for a Vortex build, with a little
twist. 
This is going to be my 1st build and i have very minimal mechanical skills so this is going to be a steep learning curve. Ive gone for the MNR Vortex
Mazda kit but instead of the MX-5 i wanted to use the Nissan 200sx S13 with a 1.8 turbo charged engine.
There are a number of reason i chose the s13.
Its the same cc as the MX-5 so shouldn't take much more room in the bay?, both 1.8 etc.
Its already turbocharged so no need for expensive modding or ecu upgrades later on in its life.
The engine/gearbox is actually lighter than the MX-5 set up without a turbo!.
Power can up increased to a safe 290bhp on std internals compared to a max of 225bhp with the turbo'ed MX-5.
Negative points? Cant really think of any other than the extra cost involved in modifying the chassis to take the running gear but this is where the
MNR team come in. They will hopfully help me in sorting all that "stuff" out .
Im hoping on using all of the s13 running gear and to go for a age related plate. Budget wise im looking at spending around 8k but this is already
looking tight!. The 8k will include the donor, kit, extra parts during build and IVA and tax etc.
Weight wise im guessing it shouldn't be over 650kg as im going for full cage as well.
My aim is to end up with around 400bhp/ton in a well set up car for corner speed and straight line kick...
Here's some pics of my donor 
[Edited on 29/11/11 by 786evo8]
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jav ;-)
MLR evo forum (clicky)
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786evo8
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 12:18 PM |
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Stumbled at the 1st hurdle.... How do you get pics on here? 
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jav ;-)
MLR evo forum (clicky)
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 12:50 PM |
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that should be good, i had a sr20det powered car and you will love the turbo power
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mookaloid
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 12:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 786evo8
Stumbled at the 1st hurdle.... How do you get pics on here?
Use the picture button (between the email link and the #) on the post reply screen
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 01:17 PM |
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the sr20 engine is very very very very tall, stick to the ca18 they are a good engine and much cheaper
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786evo8
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 01:25 PM |
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Finally!
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jav ;-)
MLR evo forum (clicky)
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786evo8
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 01:34 PM |
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I was originally going for a RB25det as i had a Skyline R33 but it would have been overkill. Images of me wheel spinning everywhere kept on popping
into my head.
The SR20det was my 2nd choice but as Tom said it is a tall engine and fitting it would be tricky. The CA18 seems to tick all the boxes...
RK, did you have a running car before moving it to the kit? That's what im doing so i cant see where i would have any problems as long as i keep
the loom the same and just get rid of the extra stuff like ABS and AC etc...?
Im expected a simple install and as said before the parts seem cheaper to upgrade as and when needed...
im going to keep this as my projects thread so keep coming back and offering advice, it would be appreciated
[Edited on 29/11/11 by 786evo8]
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jav ;-)
MLR evo forum (clicky)
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 02:01 PM |
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RK way to put a downer on his project 
Dont listen to him and do your project the way you want to.
It will prob cost a little more than going down the tried and tested route but if everybody did the same the whole world would be boring.
One thing i would suggest is that you spend some of your money on a good intercooler and radiator set up and a very good electric fan
edit: and spend some good money on some good tyres, as i could spin up my 275 width medium compound tyres in the dry with 2 up, i was running 321bhp
though and the sr20 is a torque monster
but you will love the turbo power because you can pootle along in 4 doing 30mph on light throttle with no problem and then drop it into second and
floor it and you end up having great drivability and the best of everything and the turbo does keep the exhaust noise down for iva and trackdays
[Edited on 29/11/11 by tomgregory2000]
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 02:09 PM |
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There are a few photos in my archive of my install, have a look and ask any questions if you want
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 02:34 PM |
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I built mine using the sr20det,box diff etc out of my old s14a.No real problems getting it to run on the original ecu.(just a shed load of wires to
trace.) Only stumbling block might be the NATS if that doesn't play ball,but as said it gave me no issues.
Good luck,you'll love it,turbo power and nissan reliability,and enough torque to make it a pleasure to drive in traffic.
Chris
Ps mine came in at under £7k sva'd.that said anything i could do myself,beg or steal was done myself,bedded or stolen!I guess you could easily
double that price if you have to pay someone to make all the one off parts,or indeed even pay for materials.
That said there's no expensive RR setups etc that people often forget to admit to etc after the car was built.
[Edited on 29/11/11 by StrikerChris]
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786evo8
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 03:20 PM |
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RK, i remember reading your posts about not being able to start the car. I searched the CA18 and your name came up a few times in the results. It did
put me off the CA thinking it might be over my level of experience in trying to install one but now that i have the car ive looked at the wiring and
it doesn't look any more complex than the MX-5. I might be back here in a few months/years eating my own words but for now im keeping a positive
open mind towards this build . In your posts you didnt get much feedback or help regarding the porblems you were having and i think you should have
asked the questions on 200sx fourms like sxoc.com etc, They have a wealth of knowledge on there.
Tom, i was interstered in buying your car when you had it up for sale but i kept on thinking the whole point of a kit car is to build it yourself. So
im going to give it a go and if i fail then i can always buy one
Chris, the s13 doesn't have NATS and that's another reason why i chose it. I have never welded so am putting all of that stress onto Marc
and the rest of the MNR team. They seem to know what they're doing so i'll leave it to them.
Thanks for all the comments and input guys
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jav ;-)
MLR evo forum (clicky)
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 03:52 PM |
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I personally tend to ignore the people who're willing to stick their oar in without knowing what was at fault. If they can lay down the fact
that this wont work with that and therefore the cost is X, fine, but if it's just because they couldn't make it work it's not really
worth worrying about. Almost no-one had megasquirted a 3S-GTE when I started mine, was told from all angles it was a bad idea, impossible to hook up,
too expensive - balls, it was easy.
Good luck, watch out for the usual big end/main bearing failures that are common on that engine at high powers, but I used to know someone who owned
one and in the tin top it was a great fun car to drive, I can see it being twice the fun in a kit. Crack on, if there's issues the CA18 is a
really really well supported engine/ECU combination, someone will be able to help you sus it out. Check out www.sxoc.com for specific help if you need
it, they've been stripping, modding and swapping 200SX engines for years over there.
[Edited on 29/11/11 by coyoteboy]
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Eatpies99
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 04:54 PM |
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Hi mate, was that you who came into the MNR workshop on sat morning??
Where's this washer come from????
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CNHSS1
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 05:45 PM |
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CA18DETs a cracking little engine and box combo, loads of aftermarket goodies and in a luke warm state of tune you will see 250-275hp all day long. it
has its foibles, show me an engine that doesnt, but as has been said forums like the sxoc.com has more info than you could shake a stick at and all
your questions will be answered, plus others you havent thought of
SR20 is no better or worse, suffers from other issues, but again easy to sort/avoid.
if going for SR20 route, avoid FWD or GTi-R 4wd version as it doesnt bolt up to rwd boxes (s13 and s14 versions interchangeable with swapping
bellhousings but differing ratios)
any Qs ask away
"Racing is life, everything else, before or after, is just waiting"---Steve McQueen
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CNHSS1
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 06:04 PM |
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ive built them, built them right, and raced them hard. My experience sounds to be opposite to yours RK.
im not a bullshitter either BTW
"Racing is life, everything else, before or after, is just waiting"---Steve McQueen
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turboben
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 06:31 PM |
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I think its a brilliant engine too. But you need a well looked after engine. I think the trouble is the engines get abused and are very willing to rev
passed the redline.
Ben
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BigLee
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 06:39 PM |
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Go for it mate. You build what you want to build. Just check the engine height. You will find pics in the forum showing sump clearances of the MX5,
bearing in mind it virtually touches the bonnet at the top. Also is your engine intended to be at slant? The engine bay is very tight. What diff are
you using? The 1.6 option which the MNR chassis uses wont take that kind of power. The 1.8 will, but it will need modifying to fit.
I love the idea you are going with, but weigh up the cost over running a 1600mx5 turbo versus your setup. 200bhp in a Vortx is mental enough. It is
damned expensive enough to do the build I did, without changing too much. Also consider the heat you're going to produce. It's hard enough
keeping this thing cool. If you want a spin in mine with a standard mx5 turbo setup, let me know
Cheers,
Lee
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PSpirine
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 06:47 PM |
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I'd like to chime in on this - you mentioned you want to use S13 running gear! If all the components are available for a Mx-5 donor, why not go
for a Mx-5 based build, and just use your own engine and gearbox. Yes you'll have to get a propshaft made, but I'm pretty certain
that's the case anyway..
I just see trying to adapt the S13 running gear taking up all of your time for no actual benefit. Cost wise you shouldn't be any worse off if
you sell off the S13 bits to drifters - they're smashing things all the time!
As for the CA18DET engine, it's a brilliant choice - I've had a bit of experience with these and they are extremely tunable and relatively
durable. I reckon an SR20 would be a better choice, but the cost of an SR20 engine/gearbox IIRC is around 3x that what you'd pay for a CA18DET
package (or even complete vehicle.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 07:47 PM |
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quote:
he said it was his first build. i find knowledgable people underestimate what these things take. of course it can be done but how many tears do you
want to shed while you learn? anyhow i wish him good luck!
But there's no need for tears, the support is available and most of the broken dreams here are from people who won't or can't commit
enough time to really nail a problem and keep nibbling at it. To some having a finished car is the point of it, to others the build is the point of
it. It sounds as though all you wanted was the finished article - not sure why you didn't just buy one. Ultimately it's just lumps of
metal and transistors, if you're willing to look at it properly and diagnose it properly it shouldn't be an issue, even for a first time
builder. The biggest issue that will bite anyone is chassis and suspension design - buying a kit effectively drops that issue nicely. The rest
isn't really a problem IME. I just don't understand what you could have found such an issue to put you off so much.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 29/11/11 at 09:16 PM |
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I also went a different route to the norm and would recommend it. I agree that using the mx5 running gear would be cheaper if the diff has decent
ratio and it can take the power.
I went your route But used Honda s2000 engine,box,diff,steering wheel,stalks,column, modded prop and drive shafts. Expensive items were wheels+ tyres,
digital dash and upgrade ecu. Apart from that it's on a par with most builds I think.
[Edited on 30/11/11 by daniel mason]
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first350
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:15 PM |
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If you end up using MX-5 bits, just remember that the Diff may be your power limiter...the 1.8L LSD tends to have issues above 300 wHP.
*I'm at 188WHP w/ my 1.8L turbo...for lower speeds, it's plenty quick; but after doing a few track days, I'm starting to want a bit
more power for the top speed; looks like I'm Aero/drag limited to ~135 MPH (217 KPH).
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daniel mason
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:19 PM |
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I bet your 188 whp is more than I get from mine. And I bet it cost you far less. Lol
[Edited on 2/12/11 by daniel mason]
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 10:35 PM |
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Nissan power all the way it's the future
ps i have the sr20det engine and box from a year 2000 s14a
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
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ChrisB200SX
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| posted on 2/1/12 at 01:52 AM |
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I see some familiar names in this thread I'm totally new to this site and the whole process of choosing/building a kit.
I'm very keen to follow this build, when my S13 chassis is beyond help I intend to drop the CA18DET and gearbox (and whatever else I can keep)
into a kit of some description.
I'm keen to help this build in any way that I can, I know a fair bit about the S13 and CA18DET etc.
I think the CA18DET is still a little tall for a kit car, modified sump and oil heater/cooler removal kits would probably be necessary.
Oil return and heat build-up towards the back of the block are the biggest problems IMO.
Would like to hear more details of what bits you are using and what you are unsure of, if anything?
Chris B
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RK
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| posted on 2/1/12 at 03:56 AM |
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First: it isn't too tall. The only tall bit is the intake plenum. Unfortunately, there are very few aftermarket ones to buy, unlike for the
SR20.
Second: It is a great transmission; at least it is for me so far.
Third: There are a ton of things you can do to increase the HP, without opening up the engine: bigger injectors, turbo, throttle body, get rid of the
MAF (I did) etc. Soon, you will have to watch your diff, because it will be getting huge power into it before you know it. It is apparently cheaper
than a lot of engines this way.
Finally, I wouldn't do it again, simply because it has ended up costing me a fortune in a new ECU, tuning etc. It would have been nice to use
something known better (like the SR20DET), and all I was trying to say earlier is that there is an easier life to live, when it comes to powering a
seven. I'm not in England, and life is a lot harder here when it comes to Locosts and kit cars in general.
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