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Author: Subject: Charger Cooler vs Intercooler
jeffw

posted on 9/4/12 at 07:54 PM Reply With Quote
Charger Cooler vs Intercooler

I have an issue where I am dropping 6psi across my intercooler. I could get a better intercooler and maybe reduce this to 3-4psi or .....

I could get a charge cooler like these guys www.chargecooler.co.uk and reduce the loss to 0.5 psi. 5psi increase is not to be sniffed at and it make the packaging of the supercharger kit easier and more compact.

So...who has used them and what do people think?






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rdodger

posted on 9/4/12 at 08:07 PM Reply With Quote
I used a chargecooler on my MX5 and am using the engine and the same set up in my Thruxton.

I started with a Jackson racing kit and now moved on to one from Frozen Boost.

http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?osCsid=6c5fa9ad9592b62c8d743f5b52ce56d7

They are somewhat cheaper even with duty and carriage.

It works very well as long as you use a decent pump and large enough radiator. As you say no loss of boost.

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Antnicuk

posted on 9/4/12 at 08:37 PM Reply With Quote
I started running an intercooler but i couldnt really get the size i wanted and was getting some drop although air temps were good. The other issue i was having was the oil temps, i didnt have space to get the oil cooler in the air flow. I went for a PWR charge cooler as i know they flow really well. There are drag racers that run 700 hp on a rotary through one so i knew it worked. It also allowed me to run a larger oil cooler and get it in the air flow. It worked really well, although my air temps were a few degrees higher but the oil temps were spot on and the car felt so much more responsive. With the boost controller on the same setting i was running 3 - 4 psi more, so much so that i needed the car remapping.

I used a mocal oil cooler for the oil and the same size one for the charge cooler. I used a davis craig EWP 80 as the pump.

Before



After







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jeffw

posted on 9/4/12 at 08:45 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks, that is good info.






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ashg

posted on 9/4/12 at 10:48 PM Reply With Quote
i have got a pace charge cooler on mine couldn't fit a front mount intercooler in. they cost best part of a grand with the pump front rad piping etc but my charge temps are nice and low. it also really reduces lag im making good useable boost at 17-1800 rpm. im seeing about 0.7bar of boost at 1800rpm peaking at 1.2bar at 5700rpm although i lowered the boost to 0.8 as the thing was too mental for the road usual charge temps ar around 35-40deg c have seen 45 on a very hot day running full boost but it think is because im really pushing my turbo at 1.2 bar.





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jeffw

posted on 10/4/12 at 05:17 AM Reply With Quote
Thanks Ash....you can come round and fit mine

Sounds like the thing to do rather than spent £400-500 on a good intercooler splash the cash and go charger cooler.






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kjouk

posted on 10/4/12 at 08:37 AM Reply With Quote
I have a old cosworth intercooler that I picked up cheap on ebay, gives ~1psi loss.

On longer track runs with this I was peaking at 70C inlet @18psi so also imported a small PWR style charge cooler from US with the intension of installing it only for longer track work, the car is mainly for sprints so didn't want any extra weight if its not needed.

Over the winter I have done some work to remove weight from the car and now the intercooler alone keeps inlets temps <40C. All I can reason is that lightening has changed the air flow very significantly making the intercooler work much better.

I suspect the important change was removing engine under-tray, wasn't a full cover as there was a large hole in it for engine sump. Other thing I did that may also be important was move dry sump tank which used to be fairly close behind the IC.

[Edited on 10/4/12 by kjouk]

[Edited on 10/4/12 by kjouk]

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ashg

posted on 10/4/12 at 09:02 AM Reply With Quote
Jeff I have got a big intercooler you can try if you want





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mabbs

posted on 11/4/12 at 07:48 PM Reply With Quote
Hi Jeff,

I was advised by TTS to charge cool my rotrex supercharged Zetec for this reason. I have been to visit PWR who make the charge coolers and gained some good advice. I would have opted for the PWR unit but had to have a custom unit made due to space in the car. The custom unit is made by a company who make purly these types of units. The directed airflow internally is a peice of art work !!

I will hopefully have my car running next week and can feed back what pressure my charge system is making as it should be a good indicator.

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SausageArm

posted on 11/4/12 at 09:05 PM Reply With Quote
Here's my intercooler, oil cooler, radiator setup





Not noticed a pressure drop scross the cooler but have no idea of inlet temps.

What are you guys using to monitor inlet/charge air temperatures?

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Antnicuk

posted on 11/4/12 at 09:43 PM Reply With Quote
My ecu displays the air temps on a screen that comes with it along with other engine parameters, there is an air temp sensor in the throttle body. There are stand alone air temp sensors for sale on eBay which may do what you need.





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mabbs

posted on 12/4/12 at 06:34 AM Reply With Quote
My charge air pressure is taken in the plenum just before entry so I get a true reading of what is being supplied. As the Rotrex charger is dynamic with the engine you can calculate accurately what is being produced so no need to have one in that area.

You can see the 3 outlets on the top of the plenum for which one is being used for this




The air temp is taken at the entry point of the throttle body so again I get a good idea of what air temp is going in.

Any ideas of what we should be aiming for or is realistically achievable for inlet air temp after intercooler/chargecooler ?



[Edited on 12/4/12 by mabbs]

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rdodger

posted on 12/4/12 at 07:59 AM Reply With Quote
I use a megasquirt ecu and have an open element temp sensor after the chargecooler and just before the inlet manifold.

I can log inlet temps using the ecu and the aim is to keep the inlet temp as close to ambient as possible.

My supercharger without charge cooler or intercooler can give an inlet temp knocking on 100 degree c. With my old charge cooler I was seeing 25-30 above ambient on track. With the new set up I'm hoping for 15-20.

That is with a pullet ratio of about 1.6:1 on an Eaton MP62.

[Edited on 12/4/12 by rdodger]

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matt_gsxr

posted on 12/4/12 at 09:18 AM Reply With Quote
MS ECU with 45p thermistor from Maplin.

You ECU must already have air temp sensing Jeff. Can you not datalog from it?

[Edited on 12/4/12 by matt_gsxr]

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jeffw

posted on 12/4/12 at 09:26 AM Reply With Quote
It is the pressure differential I am really interested in at the moment. Temps are fine.






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bigbravedave

posted on 12/4/12 at 12:00 PM Reply With Quote
As part of my job I design charge air installations, I apreciate packaging anything in a seven is a challenge but whenever we get pressure drop measurements outside our targets the first thing we look at is all of the interconnecting pipework and cold air across the cooler

You would be suprised just how much of a difference pipe diameters, lengths and bend radius can make when you measure pressure difference between turbo out and manifold in.

I have recently rotated a turbo housing arround its clinch bolts to remove a 180 degree bend, big difference

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jeffw

posted on 12/4/12 at 01:02 PM Reply With Quote
So what would a typical intercooler in a seven/Phoenix drop pressure wise?






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