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Author: Subject: I'm back with a question!
Pat_T

posted on 22/11/18 at 12:55 PM Reply With Quote
I'm back with a question!

Hi everyone,

I've been away a few years after owning some great Sevens - 200bhp Redtop Stuart Taylor IRS, followed by a 320bhp V8 Westfield.



Starting a new super-exciting and unique Seven-based project soon. And my first post back needs to start with a question:

What is the shortest wheelbase and narrowest cockpit area Seven chassis? Is it a Caterham S3?

Does anyone have a table or list of wheelbase dimensions by chassis kit?
I believe that my old Stuart Taylor was closer to a narrow-body caterham in width than the standard "book" chassis but unfortunately I never took any measurements of it to confirm.


For your interest while I've been gone I've been busy importing/modding/driving this beast:




2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 - 7.0L LS7 (titanium rods and valves & dry sumped all as standard) 650bhp, carbon ceramic brembos, MultiMatic Spool valve dampers.
Not lo-cost, and definitely not lightweight! But huge fun and hugely capable on track much to everyone's surprise when I appear behind them

cheers,
Pat

[Edited on 22/11/18 by Pat_T]





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coyoteboy

posted on 22/11/18 at 01:06 PM Reply With Quote
Hey! Welcome back!

That's a lovely looking car, and I bet it sounds amazing, but it always staggers me how with all that effort put in you can only pull 650hp out of it?

That's worse cc/hp than a 90's production escort cosworth?





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Pat_T

posted on 22/11/18 at 01:20 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Hey! Welcome back!

That's a lovely looking car, and I bet it sounds amazing, but it always staggers me how with all that effort put in you can only pull 650hp out of it?

That's worse cc/hp than a 90's production escort cosworth?


It's a good point. The LS7 engine is a juxtaposition of very old technology (2 valve, pushrod V8, limiting max engine speed due to valvetrain mass and ultimately limiting power) with modern materials science enabling it to rev to 7250rpm which is quite a lot for a production pushrod V8. The advantages in the pushrod layout are simplicity, durability and packaging (it's a very compact layout).

With deep enough pockets you can take them to just over 7000bhp (100bhp/litre) naturally aspirated which is not too shabby. Trust me when I say it doesn't need any more though





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bi22le

posted on 22/11/18 at 01:28 PM Reply With Quote
Welcome back and nice Yank Tank. I can see you have just got some air on that first pic.

Back to smallest seven style car. I thought the Striker chassis were pretty small.

They have to have unique slim seats fitted and my car certainly appears visually smaller then most when I am on track days.

I'm sure a google search will deliver the sizes of these common-ish cars.





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

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Angel Acevedo

posted on 22/11/18 at 03:17 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_T
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Hey! Welcome back!
.....

With deep enough pockets you can take them to just over 7000bhp (100bhp/litre) naturally aspirated which is not too shabby. ...








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Pat_T

posted on 22/11/18 at 03:18 PM Reply With Quote
Good shout - a striker is about an inch shorter between the wheels. Then I did a bit more digging and it looks like a Fury is another couple of inches shorter again!

wheelbase:

Caterham S3 = 2225mm
Raw Striker = 2200mm
Fisher Fury = 2150mm

any others to consider? A Phoenix is built off the same chassis as a Striker is it not?
how big are the Sylva J cars?

edit:-
Sylva J15 = 2270mm

[Edited on 22/11/18 by Pat_T]





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Pat_T

posted on 22/11/18 at 03:29 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Acevedo
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_T
.....

With deep enough pockets you can take them to just over 7000bhp (100bhp/litre) naturally aspirated which is not too shabby. ...





typo - too many 000's! there's some supercharged ones running into 4 figures though





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MikeR

posted on 22/11/18 at 03:57 PM Reply With Quote
I believe the stuart taylor is the same size as a standard locost (bodywork is interchangable). The S3 came in two versions, original and long cockpit. I believe the original version hasn't been made for a long time (but i'm not totally confident of that statement).
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JC

posted on 24/11/18 at 07:46 AM Reply With Quote
I was looking to build a narrow car a while ago.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=211567&page=2
This was the info I gleaned from the net. The Striker seems to be about the only car that uses shortened Sierra driveshafts to stick to the classic Escort axle width. Most others use the full width Sierra rear end.
Most Locost based cars, Stuart Taylor, MK etc. Are based on the Westfield dimensions which means the cockpit opening is longer amongst other things - part of the post litigation changes Westfield made.

These are the widths I gleaned:

Caterham 160 1575mm
Raw Striker 1550mm
Westfield (Narrow) 1560mm
Westfield SDV 1640mm
GBS Zero 1720mm
SR2 1750mm

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Pat_T

posted on 24/11/18 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JC
I was looking to build a narrow car a while ago.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=211567&page=2
This was the info I gleaned from the net. The Striker seems to be about the only car that uses shortened Sierra driveshafts to stick to the classic Escort axle width. Most others use the full width Sierra rear end.
Most Locost based cars, Stuart Taylor, MK etc. Are based on the Westfield dimensions which means the cockpit opening is longer amongst other things - part of the post litigation changes Westfield made.

These are the widths I gleaned:

Caterham 160 1575mm
Raw Striker 1550mm
Westfield (Narrow) 1560mm
Westfield SDV 1640mm
GBS Zero 1720mm
SR2 1750mm


Very useful thanks, I don't suppose you found the cockpit widths in addition to the overall widths did you?

At the moment I'm tending towards a Fisher Fury chassis, but I'm still looking for dimensions on the Sylva Stlyus too. A Caterham CSR would also be ideal but maybe a little pricey start point for what I have in mind!

Caterham standard vs "SV" comparison :






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TimC

posted on 24/11/18 at 09:43 AM Reply With Quote
What about the Tiger HS6?






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Camber Dave

posted on 24/11/18 at 09:59 AM Reply With Quote
Sylva Leader

Wheel base 2220
Width over rear wheel arches 1520
Cockpit width inside chassis - at dash 970
Cockpit width inside chassis - at front of seat 1080

Chassis top rail is 50mm wide plus glass fibre body - so add 110 to cockpit widths.

Cockpit opening from dash base to deck behind seat 1200

The Leader project is for sale - search previous posts on LCB

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obfripper

posted on 24/11/18 at 07:33 PM Reply With Quote
Another to consider is the AB Arion/Typhon, the front end is Striker derived up to the scuttle and rear end is Fury derived so is a touch wider than the Striker towards the back.
There has been quite a lot of development to the front suspension design & setup, the ride height setup is track orientated so may not suit your intentions but there are a few road registered cars.
There is also a '7' style body in the works if that's more your thing.

Dave

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Pat_T

posted on 24/11/18 at 08:29 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
Another to consider is the AB Arion/Typhon, the front end is Striker derived up to the scuttle and rear end is Fury derived so is a touch wider than the Striker towards the back.
There has been quite a lot of development to the front suspension design & setup, the ride height setup is track orientated so may not suit your intentions but there are a few road registered cars.
There is also a '7' style body in the works if that's more your thing.

Dave


Thanks Dave, hadn't heard of that one. Will have a look at it.

I want something that will be decent on track so don't mind if it's low. Chassis stiffness is important but I'm not adverse to putting in some extra tubes.

Bodywork not really important - ultimately I'll be running totally different bodywork.

Whatever I buy needs to be road registered ideally.





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hughpinder

posted on 26/11/18 at 09:07 AM Reply With Quote
The sylva riot felt pretty small when I went in it, but I can't find the actual dimensions anywhere.
Regards
Hugh

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jps

posted on 26/11/18 at 09:55 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_T
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
Another to consider is the AB Arion/Typhon,


I want something that will be decent on track

Whatever I buy needs to be road registered ideally.


AB Performance generally get a lot of good feedback on here (as with all suppliers there is the odd complaint) - and they seem to have extremely strong racing pedigree. One of their cars has been road registered too. But they do primarily build BECs

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peter030371

posted on 26/11/18 at 12:20 PM Reply With Quote
The Fury is a little wider than the Striker. The seats in the Fury in my barn did not fit in my older live axle Striker or in my newer IRS Striker

Never measured the wheelbase but it is very close to being the same looking at how they fit on the trailer

If you want any specific measurements from a (live axle) Fury or IRS Striker just ask?

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Pat_T

posted on 26/11/18 at 06:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by peter030371
The Fury is a little wider than the Striker. The seats in the Fury in my barn did not fit in my older live axle Striker or in my newer IRS Striker

Never measured the wheelbase but it is very close to being the same looking at how they fit on the trailer

If you want any specific measurements from a (live axle) Fury or IRS Striker just ask?


Hi Peter, if you have both to hand and can quickly double check the wheelbase on both I'd be very grateful. Also a measurement for both from say the brake pedal face to the rear edge of the cockpit floor would be very interesting (hope that makes sense?!)

cheers,
Patrick





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peter030371

posted on 26/11/18 at 08:23 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_T
Hi Peter, if you have both to hand and can quickly double check the wheelbase on both I'd be very grateful. Also a measurement for both from say the brake pedal face to the rear edge of the cockpit floor would be very interesting (hope that makes sense?!)

cheers,
Patrick


I will have a measure up tomorrow lunch time

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peter030371

posted on 27/11/18 at 08:44 AM Reply With Quote
God it was cold in the barn this morning!

So comparing a late 90's live axle Fury chassis with a early 00's IRS Striker chassis;

    Wheelbase is the same on both at 2200mm

    Front wheeltrack is 1500 to the outside of the rims once I had taken into account the fact the Striker has slightly wider wheels

    Rear wheeltrack is 1540 to the outside of the rims, again, once I had taken into account the fact the Striker has slightly wider wheels

    Difficult to measure the brake pedal to rear firewall as they both have seats fitted however the transmission tunnel on both is 1200mm long and is possibly a better guide than the brake pedal position

    The cockpit width front and rear is the big difference. Front cockpit width (to the outside of the chassis) is only 900mm on the Striker but 1000mm on the Fury. The rear cockpit width (again to the outside of the chassis) is 1000mm on the Striker and just over 1100mm on the Fury (difficult to measure on a built up car). Also the sidepod and body work on the Fury are both outside the chassis by a long way and make the care seem a lot wider even though the wheeltrack is the same.


My Striker suspension is adjustable but the Fury is fixed so may affect the wheelbase/track by plus or minus 5-10mm on each measurement.

Having seen (and lifted) both chassis naked in the past I would also say a few bits of the Fury are 'more robust' than the Striker i.e. they have some steel floorpan sections, the Striker is all ali in that area. Certainly without body work a Striker is a little lighter than a Fury (subjective from lifting both part built onto the floor from work stands)

Other big difference is 'as standard' the Fury has a bolt on roll over hoop but the Striker is welded in, may or may not be an issue to you and your plans

Need any other measurements then just shout

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Pat_T

posted on 27/11/18 at 05:43 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks a lot Peter. That's excellent information. Probably all I need for now. Just need to keep my eye out for the right car to come up for sale now!





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coyoteboy

posted on 27/11/18 at 07:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_T
With deep enough pockets you can take them to just over 7000bhp (100bhp/litre) naturally aspirated which is not too shabby. Trust me when I say it doesn't need any more though


say what?! 7000 N/A?





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Pat_T

posted on 27/11/18 at 09:48 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_T

typo - too many 000's! there's some supercharged ones running into 4 figures though






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