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Author: Subject: Scottish Independence Referendum
scootz

posted on 5/7/14 at 11:18 AM Reply With Quote
Scottish Independence Referendum

Surprised there's not been a thread given we're not far away from the referendum.

Your thoughts... ???





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ceebmoj

posted on 5/7/14 at 11:32 AM Reply With Quote
As I live in england I dont get a vote.

However I would be intrested to see an open and honest debate on the subject. So far I have only seen retoric from both camps

[Edited on 5/7/14 by ceebmoj]

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snapper

posted on 5/7/14 at 11:43 AM Reply With Quote
I truly believe both sides will be disadvantaged more than any advantage
Nothing has been said regarding Scotland's defence, currency, health service, tax, pension provision and so on.
I did hear that under international law all nuclear waste is kept in the country of origin
You can't be in the European union unless you meet certain criterior so no Euro and no Pound
I personally love the Union perhaps you in Scotland have heard more about these things but I have heard none and may be much less informed than the Scots





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tegwin

posted on 5/7/14 at 11:44 AM Reply With Quote
From my limited reading of the subject I can see why Scotland would want to be independent. In an idealistic world this would be fine but down here in the real world it just makes no sense at all to me....

I am not English, I am British and proud of the fact that the diverse culture of England, Wales and Scotland can exist in one union.

To me it just looks like people want change for changes sake with little regard for the consequences?!

[Edited on 5/7/14 by tegwin]





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mark chandler

posted on 5/7/14 at 11:58 AM Reply With Quote
As far as I can see the rich in Scotland will get richer, the less well off will not see any benefit, probably worse as jobs migrate.

The decision will be biased because people say that Scotland cannot leave the UK so the Scots will vote out because of this. Add currency issues, oil being pumped below the boarder and industry migrating to England so become proud but lonely.

Cannot see the advantage myself, it's not as if Scotland does not already have control of a lot of stuff that directly affects the country.

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Matt21

posted on 5/7/14 at 12:20 PM Reply With Quote
its a once in a life time opportunity, if they dont go for it then they will never get another chance

but i cant see how they would benefit at all

all i can see is a bunch of scottish people who have this hatred of everyone else. I work offshore and 90% of the people here are scottish, and they all have the same view of english people, you would think they were all on braveheart the way they carry on.
Having asked plenty of guys out here what they are voting for, they all say independance. So I ask them why, all i get is a long pause and then 'so the english cannae tell us what tae dae'. Other than they, they dont have a clue why theyre voting!!

from what I have said, it might seem I have a dislike for scottish people. But I dont, Its just a complete dislike of they way they see the rest of the uk.

one comment went along the lines of 'shes not my f***ing queen and she never will be the stupid bitch'.... says it all really doesnt it?!

I think english people should be able to vote too. I'm pretty sure there would be no debate in the matter then.

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ali f27

posted on 5/7/14 at 12:59 PM Reply With Quote
Any chance of Cumbria going with them at least an Edinburgh government would know were Cumbria is.
Be interesting to have a poll up North and see what the comments were it would have to be run up here as government would hand polling cards out in Watford

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snapper

posted on 5/7/14 at 01:16 PM Reply With Quote
The 50,000 Polish in Scotland will get the vote
The west coast around Faslane and Coulport will vote to stay in





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joneh

posted on 5/7/14 at 01:32 PM Reply With Quote
If you had a girlfriend who was thinking of leaving you, you don't wait for her to make up her mind.

Take your shortbread, whiskey and swearing and go!

(Only joking, I think we'd be better together as the UK)

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britishtrident

posted on 5/7/14 at 02:52 PM Reply With Quote
What observers from south of the border always miss is the factor is that over the last 40 years or so what is regarded as the centre ground in in politics has moved much further to the right in England and Wales than it has in Scotland. After the Pole Tax the Conservative Party became virtually extinct north of the border.





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spaximus

posted on 5/7/14 at 02:53 PM Reply With Quote
The only people who will see a benefit will be those who crave power after a successful referendum for independence has taken place. The claim that Scotland is better of alone is nonsense, however it is one steeped in hatred of the English for crimes committed against the Scots centuries ago. Rational debate is not being entered into which is needed. Alex Salmond is he'll bent on winning to make history, but would ruin the economy as all the eggs are in one basket. the Scots get a much better deal out of the uk than the English do, we have to pay university fees old age care fees whilst the Scottish parliament charge there own nothing.

I hope they stay as I fear the reality of independence will be a huge shock once it is cellar what they have lost.

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Sam_68

posted on 5/7/14 at 03:07 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
As I live in england I dont get a vote.


This is the bit I don't understand.

Surely both partners in the union should get a chance to vote on whether it should be dissolved?

As to the wails of 'She isnae oor quinn' and England's a colonial power, bleedin' us dry', they need to refer to their own history books: the Union of the Crowns was brought about by a monarch who was first and foremost Scottish, and the final act of political and economic union was brought about in 1707 because Scotland needed England to bail her out after she'd bankrupted herself in the Darien colonial adventure.

We're better off together, but if the Scottish people are too short-sighted to recognise that, then good riddance to them: they'll suffer more from the dissolution of the Union than we will.

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iank

posted on 5/7/14 at 03:15 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
As I live in england I dont get a vote.


This is the bit I don't understand.

Surely both partners in the union should get a chance to vote on whether it should be dissolved?




Following that logic the whole of Europe would get a vote in any future referendum on UK EU membership. Can't wait to see Farage's face if that's suggested.





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Sam_68

posted on 5/7/14 at 03:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Following that logic the whole of Europe would get a vote in any future referendum on UK EU membership.


Not quite, because there's a difference between becoming a member of a larger confederation and a merger of two political entities into a single political entity.

On dissolution of the partnership, it becomes the difference between choosing not to renew your membership of a club, and getting a divorce.

But if Europe ultimately progresses toward true federalisation, then it would become a fair point: an equivalent scenario is effectively what caused the American Civil War.

Personally, I'm in favour of a federal Europe, but you're right, Farage and the narrow-minded bigots of middle England would have kittens.


[Edited on 5/7/14 by Sam_68]

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snapper

posted on 5/7/14 at 03:31 PM Reply With Quote
And that's why they should stay





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Ninehigh

posted on 5/7/14 at 03:38 PM Reply With Quote
I don't think they've answered the real important questions, like will I need a visa to go on holiday in scotland? Will Duncan Ballatyne get sent back there as a foreigner? WILL they have "Danny Boy" as their national anthem?






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Sam_68

posted on 5/7/14 at 03:53 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh WILL they have "Danny Boy" as their national anthem?


Forcing them to adopt a song written by an Englishman about Ireland would certainly be a suitable humiliation, but perhaps a bit subtle for your average Glaswegian.

Along with severance from Sterling, I think we should insist on them taking 'Donald where's your troosers' as their national anthem, when they go.

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angliamotorsport

posted on 5/7/14 at 04:36 PM Reply With Quote
The annoying thing is that having been born in Scotland, eduacted in Scotland and worked in Scotland but living in England, I do not get a vote but every other man and his dog living in Scotland at the moment do.

Had I been given a vote, I would vote no, we are better as one nation and feel sorry that some people living in Scotland will be carried along with the Alex Salmond sound bites.

I have a Scottish old school friend who keeps sending me pro independence material, I relpied, if it was up to me, if he gave me ten bob he could have the lot, it worked, no more crap from him.

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morcus

posted on 5/7/14 at 04:37 PM Reply With Quote
It's all an elaborate bluff by Dave in order to make himself benevolent Dictator of England. Get rid of Scotland and Tories are pretty much guaranteed to win the next election, get rid of wales and NI as well and they'd have a huge majority...

Joking of course, but it is at least partly true.





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blakep82

posted on 5/7/14 at 08:28 PM Reply With Quote
No, end of
Alex "I've taken legal advide" salmond cant be trusted on anything, his only real interest it making his willy bigger, and his ego





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v8kid

posted on 5/7/14 at 08:57 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh WILL they have "Danny Boy" as their national anthem?


Forcing them to adopt a song written by an Englishman about Ireland would certainly be a suitable humiliation, but perhaps a bit subtle for your average Glaswegian.

Along with severance from Sterling, I think we should insist on them taking 'Donald where's your troosers' as their national anthem, when they go.


Crikey you are a bit bitter aren't you!

Can't you see the racist element in these remarks? I'm British of English stock happily living in Scotland, by the way, and I can easily see how such remarks would fuel bigotry to the detriment of us all.

No cheers today.





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Sam_68

posted on 5/7/14 at 09:56 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
Crikey you are a bit bitter aren't you!


No, not really.

If the worst the Scots have to face as a result of a vote for independence is having to sing a silly song about themselves when they win a gold medal in the Olympics, they'll not be doing too badly.

I also happen to think that if and when the United Kingdom becomes totally disunited, the English could do worse than replace 'Rule Britannia' with Flanders' and Swann's 'Song of Patriotic Prejudice', but I guess that makes me racist against the English?

Nothing whatsoever to do with with thinking that petty nationalism is a load of small-minded jingoistic claptrap?

quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
Can't you see the racist element in these remarks? I'm British of English stock happily living in Scotland, by the way, and I can easily see how such remarks would fuel bigotry to the detriment of us all.


And I'm British of Scottish stock (from a very famous Scottish family), living happily in England.

Don't jump to conclusions.

And chill out. If you're taking anything on this thread that seriously, you're wound way too tight...

[Edited on 5/7/14 by Sam_68]

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dilley

posted on 5/7/14 at 10:37 PM Reply With Quote
I have a Scottish friend that I drink with. I do keep reminding him that if the Scott's go independent, immigration will take him away!
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craig1410

posted on 5/7/14 at 11:15 PM Reply With Quote
Very simple response from me.

I'm a proud Scot.

I'm a proud Brit.

Independence will be a disaster for Scotland!

I will remain in the UK if Scottish independence is declared. ( ie. my family will leave Scotland)

Common sense will prevail and my last sentence won't matter.

Lots of money will be wasted and Scots will fight among themselves as they have always done.

Sigh!

Get a grip fellow Scots and vote NO and bring an end to this nonsense!

[Edited on 6/7/2014 by craig1410]

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MikeR

posted on 6/7/14 at 06:54 AM Reply With Quote
I can see how a yes vote is a positive for anyone apart from Alec salmond.

But it is making me bloody minded that if the vote is yes then that's it. In 5 or 10 or 20 or 40 years time I will NEVER vote yes to let them back in to the Uk.

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