blakep82
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| posted on 3/11/07 at 08:35 PM |
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2.0 ford zetec or vauxhall XE *edit: or Ecotec 2.0?*
following on from my thread where i found out my 3.0 V6 won't fit in my chassis 
whats my options, and whats involved in fitting either
2.0 zetec
or
2.0 xe
or
2,0 ecotec
i'm what prices am i looking at, how easy to get either, and tuning possiblities.
i'm drawn to the XE, but i know neither will be cheap to modify to fit 
shoot!
[Edited on 3/11/07 by blakep82]
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 3/11/07 at 09:06 PM |
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XE more power to start with. !150 ish for a bellhousing.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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blakep82
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| posted on 3/11/07 at 09:11 PM |
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is there a bell housing for a ecotec with type 9 box?
ecotecs seem cheaper, and easier to get hold of. looks like they stopped making the XE about 14 years ago
don't think the racing trucks are using XE engines either, since they're so old now
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 3/11/07 at 09:18 PM |
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Same bolt pattern, so will bolt right up.
Depends what your budget is? A scabby Omega 2.0 comes with a free RWD box, or failing that, you can have the lot including box from a breakers for 200
sheets.
XE is nice, and there are plenty of bits, but they're nowhere near as cheap as the Zetec and Ecotec.
Oh, and Ecotec and XE are just as capable performance wise, but the Ecotec really needs some head porting to unleash good power.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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blakep82
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| posted on 3/11/07 at 09:21 PM |
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ecotec it is then. I know there's a 2.0 calibra turbo being broken in my town at the moment, but any xe engine's will have been abused by
now.
seen an ecotec on ebay, 4 hours left, no bids. no starting bid, but a reserve. seems they're quite easy to get.
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david walker
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| posted on 3/11/07 at 10:42 PM |
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Race "Pick-Up Trucks", like the National Hot Rods use the XE. What's the fact they haven't made them for 14 years got to do
with anything? (other than price). How long since Ford made a BDA/BDG or a Twincam? Absolutely everything is available for them.
The Ecotec is a bag o' shite in comparison. If you can't afford an XE use an old 8 valve GM from a Carlton.
Anyway how can you profess to be building a race type "pick up truck" if you haven't even done the slightest bit of research about
them, which clearly you haven't?
When getting rid of the old Taunus engine bear in mind that scrap's making £150 a tonne now - it'll be the best offer you get.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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blakep82
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| posted on 3/11/07 at 10:48 PM |
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lol, calm down! didn't think there was any call for that!
[Edited on 3/11/07 by blakep82]
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 12:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
is there a bell housing for a ecotec with type 9 box?
ecotecs seem cheaper, and easier to get hold of. looks like they stopped making the XE about 14 years ago
There are still plenty of XE's around. IMO the Ecotec is a poor second best, you might as well use the Zetec and save on the cost of the
bellhousing.
If you want a V6 have you considered some more modern and compact options such as the Duratec?
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 02:19 AM |
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Depends on the budget. Duratecs are still expensive, and still need a bellhousing (or an MX5 box).
Ecotec is a fine motor for a budget. ZX9 carbs and a megajolt get 170bhp from one I built for a mates Indy.
Unfortunately, Mr Walker above has had a gob on him for the five years I've been a member here
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Cousin Cleotis
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 08:48 AM |
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QED claim 195bhp from the ecotec with their cams and throttle body kit with no port work, not too bad?
I think its a little blinkered when people say the red top has more power than and ecotec in standard form so it must be better. The ecotec has more
low down torque and is built for emisions and fuel economy, but once you junk the manifolds and ecu there is little difference between them, the inlet
valves are 1mm smaller on the ecotecs, the ports look smaller, but size isnt everything.
Paul
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chriscook
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 09:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cousin Cleotis
QED claim 195bhp from the ecotec with their cams and throttle body kit with no port work, not too bad?
But you can get that using standard cams in an XE. My first XE engine I paid £125 for and I won one off ebay yesterday at £87. The new one is getting
a full strip down and rebuild so if its not in great condition it doesn't really matter too much.
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david walker
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 09:23 AM |
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Ha, Ha Fatboy Dave - spot on, lol.
Doesn't mean that what I say isn't right does it? The truth sometimes hurts, you shelf stackers, students, pretend mechanics etc out there
want to stop dreaming up bhp numbers and get a reality check. The Ecotec is a family saloon motor and a good one at that, the Cossie designed XE
isn't eco friendly and was dumped for that reason along with the high costs of manufacture associated with it. However it will remain the choice
of racers until Duratec parts start coming in a little cheaper.
By the way QED sell bits, they do nothing else except sell bits OK. Their engineering staff, most of whom I know well, walked away some time ago and
today concentrate on Twincams, XE's and K Series within their own businesses. None of them though do Ecotecs.
Oh and gob or not, I build engines that win races and lots of them. I speak my mind and for that reason I spend a lot of time on the phone helping
Locosters who ring me with their problems - without complaint. I never seem to sell them anything 'cos by definition being a Locoster means
being a tight sod, but good luck to them. What I will not do is what a a good many people on here do and that is regurgitate tosh they have heard
"on the net" and pass it off as expert opinion.
Finally, and I will shut up then (for a short while), I have told you armchair se7eners before - a 160bhp, at the wheels se7en is as quick as you
could want one.
Bye for now
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Guinness
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 09:52 AM |
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Interesting thread this, speaking as a bike engined sevener.
I was out blatting yesterday with about a dozen cars. Almost every engine was represented there, along with almost every budget / spend.
2 x RS500's with very heavily modified 1.8K Series engines. (1 starter motor packed in, 1 spat it's coolant out).
3 x Zetec 1800's
1 x Fireblade
1 x ZX9R
1 x ZZR1100
1 x R1
A few crossflows and I'm afraid to say I don't know what the other lads were driving.
However the RS500, the XE powered car, and 1 of the Zetecs were VERY quick. They are all packing around 200bhp and those guys have been driving
7's for years. This ties in with Dave's suggested figure of 160 bhp at the wheels.
The next group were the BEC's with around 150bhp. There was nothing to choose between the BEC's, but we were slightly off the pace of the
front three.
The only catastrophic failure we had was a XE, running GSXR throttle bodies, megasquirt. Combined with an LSD and sticky rear tyres this one let go
at max revs, slightly sideways! Admittedly it's had a hard life, but it was running ARP bolts, pocketed pistons etc.
In conclusion, IMHO, the Zetec is the best engine. The ability to drop it in straight from the donor, fit throttle bodies and megasquirt and get the
performance to keep up with cars that had mega money spent on there engines makes it a winner any day.
Anyway, I'll be sticking to my £250 disposable engine.
Mike
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 09:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chriscook
quote:
Originally posted by Cousin Cleotis
QED claim 195bhp from the ecotec with their cams and throttle body kit with no port work, not too bad?
But you can get that using standard cams in an XE. My first XE engine I paid £125 for and I won one off ebay yesterday at £87. The new one is getting
a full strip down and rebuild so if its not in great condition it doesn't really matter too much.
i looked on ebay yesterday, struggled to find any, but looked again today and there's quite a few, like you say, well under £100 at the
moment.
plenty of tuning parts for them too... yeah, definitely worth a look.
theres a calibra turbo being broken in my town, so i'll see what he's saying for that engine
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stevebubs
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 10:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Guinness
The only catastrophic failure we had was a XE, running GSXR throttle bodies, megasquirt. Combined with an LSD and sticky rear tyres this one let go
at max revs, slightly sideways! Admittedly it's had a hard life, but it was running ARP bolts, pocketed pistons etc.
Was this Mike / OiOi, by any chance? If so, I've seen the pics of the block. Not good.
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Guinness
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| posted on 4/11/07 at 10:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
Was this Mike / OiOi, by any chance? If so, I've seen the pics of the block. Not good.
Yup. Bad end to a bad week for him. He's got the engine out and partially stripped already. Looks like the head is OK.
Mike
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 01:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by david walker
Ha, Ha Fatboy Dave - spot on, lol.
An as ever, out with forum defensive position #3 "I build race wining engines"...
He's not taking racing Dave!
And I'm sorry, it's time to get pedantic. Nowt wrong with the Ecotec, it's just not as good a performer out of the box as the XE.
Cosworth on deisgned the head on the XE, nothing else. The block is unmitigated family 2 8v. I s'pose you could always throw back that the
X20XEV head was designed by Lotus for a balance of performance, economy and emissions.
As for SBD only selling bits, well, there's a reason for it. It's called 4.5k for a 1.6 Ecotec...
I'm sorry, I'll go back to dishing out real world advice, gained from building more cars than I have sense, an generally not being an
armchair se7ener.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 08:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave I s'pose you could always throw back that the X20XEV head was designed by Lotus for a balance of
performance, economy and emissions.
The XE is a very economical engine, at least in standard form. I could get 40mpg out of my 16v GTE without having to drive like a total granny. And
providing you get a pre 94 engine you don't have to worry too much about emissions.
The Ecotec is a reasonable engine for a family car (apart from the early self destructing cam belt tensioners), but as you can get a superior engine
for relatively little money that will bolt up to the same gearbox and has a huge aftermarket support it seems the obvious choice.
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 01:05 PM |
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Problem is, when did you last see an XE for £100 that was worth having? That doesn't even get you a decent head these days.
Some people refuse to let go that although a good engine, the XE is going the way of the twincam; soon you won't be able to get hold of a decent
motor for love nor money (mind, there'll always be shitloads of 8v blocks, and it just takes a decent head).
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 05:16 PM |
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havent read all the thread as I can't be bothered and don't have time, but Dave Walker is right so listen to what he says, he does it for
a living and wins a lot of races.
re. the XE vs Ecotec, FORGET THE FLIPPING POWER ARGUMENT!!
The XE as stock WILL make better power, by about 20-25hp if fitted with the right inlet and exhaust systems (i.e. throttle bodies or carbs plus 4-2-1
exhaust)...............
but that's not the issue, if you are tuning it, the XE has 8 bolt crank, the ecotec only 6 bolt (same as old 8 valve engine), the XE crank is
also stronger. It also has totally differently located valves. The ecotec valve locations are as per the zetec, in the corners of the chambers, thus
limiting size, causing shrouding and not helping chamber shape.
Regarding "installation bits" like bellhousing and clutch etc, both units need the same so no issue there.
Basically, for a budget job, see some posts in the past on here that I did for various others, but in summary, buy a 1991-92 low mileage
cavalier/calibra/astra16v in driveable condition, drive it home, strip it, sell the bits you don't want, and the base engine will then be a
known entity and will cost you around £100-£200 after you've sold the excess bits (bear in mind the shell will weigh in for about £80 now)
then start buying the expensive bits, and no, you won't get a bellhousing for less than £140, but then thats what you'll probably pay for
an alloy ford one anyway.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 05:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave
Problem is, when did you last see an XE for £100 that was worth having? That doesn't even get you a decent head these days.
Some people refuse to let go that although a good engine, the XE is going the way of the twincam; soon you won't be able to get hold of a decent
motor for love nor money (mind, there'll always be shitloads of 8v blocks, and it just takes a decent head).
see above, there's plenty of cared for roadcars with engines still in them, and due to their "image problem" they go for buttons
(around £300 ish gets a decent runner with some MOT that doesn't smoke or rattle, uses no oil, has great compression and some service
history)
scrap is worth £100 a tonne so you sell the F20 gearbox (£70 every time) the good bits of interior, the bumpers, the electric aerial (kid you not last
one fetched £40!! ) lights etc etc then weigh in the shell for around £80.
You will end up with an engine that you can rolling road IN the donor car to check it out, you can drive it home, then get paid for the crap you
don't want....simple.
The world has become too obsessed with pikEy-bay and forgotten that the local papers yield some lovely cheap nice cars from those in the non computer
world.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 06:09 PM |
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quote:
The world has become too obsessed with pikEy-bay and forgotten that the local papers yield some lovely cheap nice cars from those in the non computer
world.
I struggled to get one at the right price and in the end advertised for one in the scot ads (local advertiser) I'd 7 or 8 calls all offering
cars in various states of repair.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Peteff
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 06:11 PM |
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Cavalier sri on autotrader
there's usually a couple under £400 and you could probably talk them down
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 06:22 PM |
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If you can show me an Astra GTE, or a Cavvy GSI available for 400 in a loved state (not 'loved' as in 'f**ked' , then
I'll buy all I can - I never keep one on the books for more than a couple of days before it's gone. I actually have two people waiting for
engines now if you can show me one going for this price?
Even Sierras round here now are £500, and this isn't exactly an affluent neighbourhood.
It doesn't change the fact that they've gone the way of the mk2 and the Cortina, and they're going to get harder and harder to find,
and people are going to have to accept that the Ecotec for want of its failings, is a perfectly useable motor.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 5/11/07 at 06:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
there's usually a couple under £400 and you could probably talk them down
SRIs are usually either 8v (early) or Ecotec (late)
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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