Worzey
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 posted on 12/3/15 at 06:50 PM |
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Oil advice
Time for a pre-season oil change.
I've been using semi-synthetic 10w40 oil in my supercharged 4AGE 20v but have noticed it's using a bit more oil these days and I have a
sooty deposit around the exhaust. I use it for fast road/track day use.
What are your thoughts on changing to a 15w40 fully synthetic oil to reduce oil usage? Good/Bad idea?
Also, anyone know what Toyota Oil Filter part number I need?
Caterham R400
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 12/3/15 at 07:00 PM |
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I use 5/30 fully syn in my 4age works ok for me I was told by someone in the know switching to 5/30 from 10/40 was worth a couple of extra hp !!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/3/15 at 07:14 PM |
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Never use anything but a fully synthetic in a Toyota engine or indeed any modern engine.
The Toyota engine requires the extra protection to prevent piston & bore wear which causes piston slap.
Switching to fully synthetic oil should also reduce your oil consumption as it is less volatile than mineral oil.
5w/30 0w/30 or 5w/40 or 0w/40 are OK.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 12/3/15 at 07:35 PM |
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Never had an issue with older yota engines on dino oil, but fully synth is always nicer. That said, my oil changes are always at 3750 miles.
And switching from 5/30 to 10/40 should reduce power output due to higher viscosity at each temperature range.
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Dave Bailey
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| posted on 12/3/15 at 07:47 PM |
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My St170 recommended is to use semi synthetic... 5/30..... Is there really a need to use fully synthetic.
Dave B
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bi22le
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| posted on 12/3/15 at 09:22 PM |
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I have been using 15/50 following some heavy googling and reading. Toyomods have some good 20V oil discussions but I think anything from 10/40 upwards
is ok.
I use 15/50 Fusch Pro R which is a ester Synthetic oil.
Seems to be ok for me.
I have minimal carbon build up and it seems to like me ringing its neck!!
I did buy some thinner stuff (comma oils) once and went to the ring. It was fine on road, on the way but sounded awful on track. Started sounding
loose and kinda' rattly. Luckily (!!) guy I was with binned his M3 on the FIRST outing (dick) so I brought his oil. Drained it that day and went
ragging again. It sung so stuck with that make.
Toyota oil filter part number is: 90915-YZZJ2 ( for the short one, same numbers but J1 for the bigger one). I use the small one because it easier to
change and fits better with my sandwich plates \ chassis rail.
How is the 4age going? What track days and things are you doing this year? I would like to catch up and have a snoop around your car.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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Worzey
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| posted on 12/3/15 at 09:36 PM |
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Thanks Bi22le I'll give that a ago and see what happens. I'm hoping the higher viscosity helps.
I'm planning on doing Brands on the 22nd June with a colleague who owns a Caterham. Want to join us? Might do the evening session and use the
voucher I got for Xmas. i'll try and fit some other tracks days in too but not got specific plans yet.
The car is running well. It's hardly surprising that 248bhp puts a huge smile on your face 
Caterham R400
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 07:00 AM |
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Don't just buy on viscosity, buy on quality. The same rated oil behaves VERY differently. On my old Triumph at goodwood, comma 20/50 cost me a
crankshaft. Changed to millers CSS 20-50 with the same engine and replaced crank, pressure held well.
Not all oils are the same. Synthetics, especially ester based, should easily outperform mineral based oils or semi synthetic. But you won't find
out until drive the car really hard, as in on track (and please keep it to the track)
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mcerd1
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 09:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bailey
My St170 recommended is to use semi synthetic... 5/30..... Is there really a need to use fully synthetic.
Dave B
The ST170 engine is a zetec E with an iron block (and dating back to the early 90's) so semi-synthetic is ok, but that doesn't mean that
an appropriate grade of fully synthetic isn't better 
Both Ford and castrol (fords recommended brand, who also happen to make fords own brand stuff) have switched the 5w/30 stuff to fully synthetic - and
use it in all cars old and new which need that grade
-
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 11:03 AM |
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One of the big differences between mineral oils and synthetic oils is that mineral oils are composed of a mixture hydrocarbon molecules with
different chain lengths, in synthetic oils the size of all the hydrocabon moleules is similar. With mineral oil the shorter chain molecules are more
volatile and tend to disapear when the engine is run and oil is exposed to heat.
Because the molecules are close to being all the same size synthetics also make a more protective lubrication film as the bearing load is distributed
more equally among the molecules.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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DJT
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 12:48 PM |
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Changing from 10W40 to 15W40 will only affect cold running performance anyway, as the '40's are the same, no?
http://tigeravonbuilddiary.blogspot.com/
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 12:54 PM |
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exactly.
The other thing is that oil has developed and become better. So there is no downside to using a fully synthetic, except price.
Higher numbers will be thicker, and should give a little more protection. If you look at some of the oils specced for high performance engines, yiu
may be surprised to see 10/50 or even 10/60 mentioned. The manufacturers may know something about the way those cars may be driven!
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 01:13 PM |
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I find it quite interesting that no-one has mentioned the grades of oils available yet, rather than just viscosities.
Any oil that conforms to the same grade (and viscosities) should function similarlly (within bounds), by test definition.
The ACEA/ API/ASTM etc grades detail differing lubrication properties, different antifoaming levels, different detergent levels etc. These are the
critical items, more so than viscosity - it's pretty rare that viscosity causes an engine threatening issue whenit's close to that
recommended for the engine. What more often causes issues is starvation, breakdown under temp, foaming...
[Edited on 13/3/15 by coyoteboy]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 03:07 PM |
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The whole issue of grades of oil has become so confusing in recent years, in the past it was easy SD was better than SC and SE was better than
either but because of the clamp down on ash formation and the reduction in additives that are bad for catalysts and lambda sensors. With VAG vehicles
particular diesels the situation is even more confusing.
Interestingly when oils get really hot ie some way above the 100c temperature the SAE Viscosity is rated at there isn't that much difference
in viscosity between a 5/30 and a 20/50.
Where synthetics especially ester based synthetics really score is in extreme cold when you get down to -20c anything but an ester base synthetic
just won't pump.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 03:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DJT
Changing from 10W40 to 15W40 will only affect cold running performance anyway, as the '40's are the same, no?
The SAE viscosity when hot is measured at 100c. so at that temperature the viscosity will be the same when new, with mineral oils the viscosity
changes as the oil is exposed to heat and containments.
Strange as it may seem 5w/40 or 0w/40 synthetic is actually likely to have a higher viscosity at 120c than a 10w/40 or 15w/40 mineral oil and the
synthetic will have a higher lubrication film strength.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 04:06 PM |
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The SAE viscosity when hot is measured at 100c. so at that temperature the viscosity will be the same when new, with mineral oils the viscosity
changes as the oil is exposed to heat and containments.
Strange as it may seem 5w/40 or 0w/40 synthetic is actually likely to have a higher viscosity at 120c than a 10w/40 or 15w/40 mineral oil and the
synthetic will have a higher lubrication film strength.
Agreed,
But if your planning on giving the engine a right good thrashing 0w/30 would be a bad idea. Its like water when hot offering little in the way of
bearing protection. Manufactures only spec light oil for MPG purposes.
You can get fully synth oils now at 40, 50 and 60
We see time and time again rubbish breather systems causing oil consumption. for a track day car you need at least a 3/4" breather open to atmos
(via catch tank)
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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chrisj
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 05:48 PM |
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I've tried a few but keep coming back to the Valvoline VR1. Its a racing oil which maintains viscosity at high temp. I've used Millers and
a few others but the didn't maintain pressure after a thrash.
I'm using 20w50 which I brought from Amazon.
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Worzey
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 08:58 PM |
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Thanks Bi22le I'll give that a ago and see what happens. I'm hoping the higher viscosity helps.
I'm planning on doing Brands on the 22nd June with a colleague who owns a Caterham. Want to join us? Might do the evening session and use the
voucher I got for Xmas. i'll try and fit some other tracks days in too but not got specific plans yet.
The car is running well. It's hardly surprising that 248bhp puts a huge smile on your face
Caterham R400
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