Hi All

It's been a while (too long) but I was motivated yesterday to dust off the car and make sure everything still worked, and swap my dellortos over to the Bike carbs that I've been meaning to fit.

So now I'm after some practical advice.

I made sure the engine started and ran (on the dellortos) before doing anything, so whipped them off and mounted the R1 carbs (from fleabay), onto the car.

I connected the fuel directly from my mechanical pinto pump, directly to the pipe on the underside of the carbs.

But no joy in starting. A little bit of fuel was coming out of the black pipe on top (between 3 and 4)

What do I address first (bearing in mind I know nothing about these carbs)?

Should I be drilling out the main jet to 1.6mm first, or is there something more fundamental first?

Should I expect these to start, if they came off a running engine?

Once I know things are running, if not a bit lumpy I'll get them to a RR.

Thanks
Rob

Id have the bike pump fitted for one.
I assume the carbs have been sat for a bit?
Take carbs off
Split them into 4
Remove and clean with brake cleaner/petrol and an airline;
float bowls
floats (no cracks or leaks)
all the jets

carb tops
diagrams for splits

check the orings on the joining pipes for splits/damage.

clean or renew inline fuel filter.

Probably put fresh fuel in too if its been sat.

Check and re set floats if required.

After a bit of googling, went out and changed the needle ride height.

Moved the circlip from the top to the bottom.

Started first time

maccmike - thanks for the response. These came pretty clean, and although have been sat around, had been in bubble wrap etc, so confident that they would be clean enough to run. I'd also read (although you can get Google to prove anything), that if the Pinto was a Carb origianllly then the mechanical pump should be OK, just with a regulator in. I don't know - I'll see how this goes for now - those bike pumps are expensive!

I checked the diaphams when changing the needle height

It runs OK - spits when I increase the RPM - I will move the circlip back up gradually - Any ideas what the normal setting is?

Any know what the spit at higher revs is due to?

Big smile - now motivated to complete this and get it running.

I'll take a video shortly

I'm very interested in your progress. I've just about given up trying to get mine to run sweetly on DCOE 40s (they're old and have been hacked about in the past). So decided I needed to switch to bike carbs. Keep us posted.

I'm pretty sure will need a bike pump. Save loads of hassle in the long run as they run quite a low pressure and are usually the interrupter type so won't flood the carbs. I would drill the main jet to 1.6mm. How many rings have you got on the needles? Have you blocked the air intake holes up? There are loads of threads on here about this.

It's all flooding back to me now.
Are there idle control screws on R1's? If so screw them in until they are gently pinched up and mark the screw and the carb body and then turn them out two full turns. Usually on bike carbs one is set on the air flow and you will need to balance the others to it.

[Edited on 12/8/12 by scoop]

5 ring settings

Was originally set on top setting - Too lean I suspect, so I moved to bottom - started straight away. Moved to middle spat heavily

now on 2nd ring from bottom (still spits)
youtubelink

I still think this is too lean. Would adjusting the idle control screw fix this?

The idle control screw is a bugger to get to when fitted to the car! I'm conscious of them getting out of sync.

Well, I would say you need to start with the idle and flow.
I was going to suggest one up from the bottom on the needle.
The easiest way to get to the idle screws is either from underneath with a log screwdriver or just release the four clps that hold them to the manifold and flip them over. Should be one for each carb?

[Edited on 12/8/12 by scoop]

Long screwdriver! Bloody iPads!

Just discovered cracked engine block, leaking water. Will have to sort out carbs later

More cost, more delay.

Oh Christ. What a 205 block? I thought they were bomb proof?

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Originally posted by scoop
Oh Christ. What a 205 block? I thought they were bomb proof?

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Lack of antifreeze?

The mix would have been very week as I replaced a Core plug earlier in the week and just topped up with fresh water.

Hi guys

Now that I have sorted the crack, I'm still struggling.

I found that I can get the engine to run and idle OK, but when I take it for a spin there is no power.

I also found that turning the idle mixture screws did nothing (that I hear) to the engine RPM, other than affect whether I could restart or not.

Needle position 1 up from bottom seems to be better on the power. The bottom was too rich? black smoke etc. I get a lot of spit back on needle 2 up from bottom. 1 up from bottom still spits a little.

The main jet now drilled to 1.6mm (was originally 1.4mm) - not that this is kicking in just yet!

Any advice on what to try next?

Put up some pics. Have you blocked the air jet yet?

Which one is that. I assumed that it was A as it was already blocked?


Carb

Ha ha. You've got me now. I would have said b. There are lots of threads on here about this or you can can always ring Bogg Brothers or I'm sure I've found articles with a google search.

The idle screw adjusts the mix at idle and up to about half throttle. It won't adjust the idle speed. The dizzy setting does that.

Looks like the correct one is already blocked according to another thread.

Previous Thread

Will try and ascertain where it is bogging down tomorrow, to try and figure out whether it is the idle settings or the main jet needle.

I've also read in other threads that some have gone to 1.8mm main jet. I'm wondering whether this is needed on my 2l with high lift cam?

Also as I have drilled out the jet whether the needle needs to sit lower - move circlip back to pos 3 on the needle?

Have you removed any of the plugs and looked at the colour of them for a rough indication of how it's running? 1.6mm should be enough initially.

It is timed up properly?

I've only skimmed the thread but if you are still running the mechanical pinto pump you need to swap to a bike pump or similar. The pinto pump wont flow the fuel to run the bike carbs.

Genuinely not trying to flog you a pump (I have a stock of used bike pumps), but you may well end up changing loads of stuff on the carbs chasing a non-existent problem only to find when you swap the pump you need to start again.

Saying all that I didnt know you could run dellorto's on the pinto pump successfully....

[Edited on 27/8/12 by FASTdan]

Forgot about the pump. With everything else you've done. There lyes the problem.

Thanks all

Will fit a bike pump and see how we go from there. Will I need to run it through a relay or can I just wire it straight in to the main on feed?

FASTDan - Can you U2U me a price for one of your pumps please?

I came across this video which put all the jets into context with each other. Helped me anyway with my lack of understanding - YouTubeLink

Will update this post with progress.

Will be interested to know how you get on so keep us updated

A bit of an update...

Thanks to Dan @ www.danstengineering.co.uk/

I have a bike fuel pump, and after a bit of faff (running electric to back of bar!) it is now fitted.

However it doesn't seem to have made a difference to the lack of power, so...

I marked the throttle position to try and work out where abouts in the range the issue develops.

It seems to be just beyond 14 up to 34 when the issue kicks in. I can see this whilst stationary on the drive as the engine starts to splutter and struggle at the higher RPM.

On this website it states
'If the engine has problems between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle, the jet needle and needle jet (most likely the jet needle) is likely the problem.'

So I moved the jet needle down a notch to one up from bottom. I had moved it back to middle after drilling the main jet to 1.6mm.

This made it worse, i think?

Is it likely that I need to lower the needle to pos 2, to make it leaner?

Where is the needle jet - Is this likely to need drilling out?

Any further advice appreciated... I'm just starting to understand these carbs, just missing that vital piece of info to make them tunable (by me - before getting them to RR).

This all sounds similar to the problem I had... everyone said "drill the jets to 1.6mm", so I did. When I got to wide open throttle the engine would cough, splutter and bog down something 'orrible.

Finally got myself an AFR meter and when I plugged it in I found that the mixture was way too rich when the throttle was wide open - I ended up making myself a new set of jets drilled to 1.3mm, which worked perfectly.

Unfortunately I don't have adjustable needles, as my mid-throttle AFR is a bit rich - if I could improve that my settings would be perfect.

The moral of the story? Get to a rolling road, or invest in an AFR meter.

yeah Im not keen on jets being drilled until other options have been covered.
Have you set the pilot screw to factory?

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Originally posted by maccmike
yeah Im not keen on jets being drilled until other options have been covered.
Have you set the pilot screw to factory?

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quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
This all sounds similar to the problem I had... everyone said "drill the jets to 1.6mm", so I did. When I got to wide open throttle the engine would cough, splutter and bog down something 'orrible.

Finally got myself an AFR meter and when I plugged it in I found that the mixture was way too rich when the throttle was wide open - I ended up making myself a new set of jets drilled to 1.3mm, which worked perfectly.

Unfortunately I don't have adjustable needles, as my mid-throttle AFR is a bit rich - if I could improve that my settings would be perfect.

The moral of the story? Get to a rolling road, or invest in an AFR meter.

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True - but what I'm trying to say (badly) is that drilling out the jets may not be the ideal answer without some measurement tool, especially when the symptoms as so similar to those I experienced.

quote:

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Sort WOT then needle and finally idle jets.

Hope that helps.

Nick

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quote:

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What does WOT mean?

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Hi all
Another update on this, I think I am moving forward...

I bought an Innovate LC-1 with Bosch O2 sensor, which got delivered yesterday (always good to get toys in the post). Spent this morning sorting out the tails etc (if you've got one you'll know what I mean!).

This is plugged into my laptop using LogWorks 3 - This has the added advantage of tracking the changes and smoothing out what it is showing.

I ran the engine - inititally AFR was up at around 16 but once the engine warmed up it settled in at around 14.5 - which according to other threads is about right

So went for WOT and the AFR dipped to around 10. So my first question is - Is this too rich?

Second question - What should it be at WOT. I've read anywhere between 12 and 14?

Third question- If I need to swap the main jets for smaller, is there an algorithm of some sort that says I should try 1.4.

I could solder and redrill before committing to £12 per set of bought jets - seems like a plan.

Am I reading this all right?

Thanks
Rob

[Edited on 15/9/12 by RobBrown]

Some photos

Engine started to pulse at half throttle

Pulsing at Half throttle
So moved needle to middle and got to WOT but still too Rich

WOT after needle moved to mid

Main Jet is at 2.0mm as I could only go to 1.6 in smaller increments, The ideal will be somewhere between the two I suspect.

No Air filter fitted, so may have to do this as it restricts air flow and therefore affects AFR. Will fit before I do too much more!

Hi All,

For those that are interested, an update...

I've now fitted a Pipercross PX600 air filter.

Now with the LC-1 I'm able to properly see what's going on.

The long and short of it is that I'm down to 120 Mains and 15 Idle jets, and the car is starting to pull a lot better. I've 17.4 idles to fit as I've turned the mixture screw out quite a lot.

With the 120's in I still get an AFR reading of 11.2, with idle at 13.2, and bogging down on acceleration.

I can hear and feel the difference in the engine the lower the jet goes! And the throttle response is a lot better

Just can't believe that I'll probably end up between 100 and 110! So far away from the 1.6mm as always recommended when the question is asked here on LB.

Just now doubting my engine is a 2.0 litre