Jon Ison
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:21 PM |
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SVA ?
Done a quick search, don't think its been posted before.......
SVA
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locoboy
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:27 PM |
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Oh bum
ATB
Locoboy
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BenB
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:28 PM |
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Sounds bad news!!!
Does the government trust us mere low-lives to do anything right???
Is anyone else getting mightily fed up with this lot of patronising lying idiots? Time to bring in the alternative lot of patronising lying idiots 
Admittidly they wouldn't be any better (they'd just screw up the country even more but in their own special way), but after all "a
change is as good as a rest"...
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:35 PM |
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It was tony blair and brown that have sold us out! If we had a referendum we would have rejeted it.
We could class our cars as goods vehicles? There will stll need to be a test for those!
Darren
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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nitram38
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:37 PM |
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I don't believe that all tin tops will have to come with ABS as standard!
For a start that £2000 indian car will be scrapped before it is sold to anyone!
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blakep82
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:40 PM |
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lol, we should set up our own government party. lol
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:42 PM |
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Holy crap!
I'll never have it finished by then. 
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 10:45 PM |
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I think the current situation is cars should have abs or cars will be forced by law. Lotus and tvr were insignificantly small compared to ford etc.
Personally i`m getting fed up with the abs on my van, it cuts in early and feels like sliding on ice when it kicks in.
It would make sense to improve the driving test to include cadence braking.
Darren
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 25/2/08 at 11:55 PM |
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I don't give a toss as I'm moving to France in two years so I'll watch this island sink itself in oblivion 
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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iank
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 12:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I don't give a toss as I'm moving to France in two years so I'll watch this island sink itself in oblivion
Still won't be able to build your own car. French and Germans are behind the 'can't change a thing if you aren't a
manufacturer' rules.
I'm going to need to really speed up to finish in 12 months. Anyone got a cheap source of pro-plus?
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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skodaman
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 02:34 AM |
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''I'll never have it finished by then. ''
Me neither. It's taken me two years and I've only just started. What's all this about abs being compulsory? I don't like
it and power steering should be banned it's dangerous, and traction control is just boring.
The EU has turned into a police state. Anyone for a revolution? Jezza for Prezza i say.
Skodaman
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neilj37
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 07:45 AM |
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I am really surprised that something like this hasn't been mentioned in the kit car press as this sort of thing could completely kill the
market.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 07:52 AM |
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A bit more detail
quote:
What are the options?
From 2009, new regulations will begin to change the way vehicles can be approved for sale and registration.
The UK government realises that there are a significant number of small to medium businesses throughout the UK that build vehicles in small volumes or
on an individual basis that are not for export to the European market and therefore the wider benefits of ECWVTA do not apply.
In addition, a number of national manufacturers do not produce sufficient volumes of vehicles to make it cost effective to adopt ECWVTA if it were the
only option. The Government has therefore agreed in principle that there should be national schemes for small series and individual vehicle
approval.
The national schemes whilst maintaining the same technical standards as defined in the EC Directive, will aim to keep the cost of compliance
affordable.
the options for approval are;
ECWVTA - Full Type Approval for all vehicle categories both single-stage complete vehicles and multi-stage incomplete vehicles and completed vehicles.
The dates at which ECWVTA becomes mandatory are given in the link below.
Vehicle Certification website with dates when ECWVTA becomes mandatory (opens a new window)
National Small Series Type Approval - for vehicles produced in small-series rather than large volumes (i.e. buses and coaches no more than 250 of a
type or goods vehicles and trailers no more than 250 or 500 (depending on category) of a type, per annum).
Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) - for vehicles approved individually. The IVA scheme will be phased in from April 2009 by vehicle category. More
detailed timing information will appear here shortly.
From here: http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/vehicletesting/ecwvta.asp
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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iank
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 08:13 AM |
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Guess we'll have to move to Northern Ireland then.
(dvtani is the website of the Northern Ireland dept)
More information
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/sectionecwholevehicletype/keyissues
quote:
4. Small Series
The reduction in volumes eligible for Small Series from 500 to 75 under the RFD for M1 specialist vehicles is a major concern for certain sectors of
the industry, e.g. specialist cars, wheelchair access converted vehicles, and is seen as a major threat to its future. It is also argued that it
undermines efforts to improve production flow, quality and efficiency and takes the industry back to being a craft industry. The option of moving to
full Type Approval is not feasible for the size of company affected given the very significant additional compliance costs that would be involved.
(DfT campaigned on this particular issue during negotiations but was not supported by other Member States. However a number of MEPs are now picking up
on this point and may table amendments to the RFD in the European Parliament. It is also worth noting that another possible route is to opt for
European Small Series Type Approval. Currently this scheme appears not to have a significantly greater cost over National Type Approval and permits a
volume of 1000)
So Caterham/Westfield may be more screwed than us.
[Edited on 26/2/08 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 08:40 AM |
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SVA is due to be replaced by IVA (Individual Vehicle Approval). The reason behind this is that European Type Approval is being completely revised to
include approval for all classes of vehicle. Traditionally only passenger cars have been subject to European Whole Vehcile Approval. Now all vehicles
will have to be approved, including trucks, buses and trailers. In order to cater for small manufacturers, 'SVA' type tests will be
developed for these new categories, and at the same time the government have chosen to update the car SVA to be more in line with current European
requirements.
VOSA are in the proces of writing the inspection manuals and the negotiation of the requirements with government / Europe is a complex process.
I'm sure manuals will be available long before the new test comes into force so you don't need to be worried about being taken by
surprise.
[Edited on 26/2/08 by matt_claydon]
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bilbo
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 09:29 AM |
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I guess we just don't know exactly how this is going to affect us until we see the details of the IVA. Would they really do it so that they kill
an entire industry?
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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iank
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 09:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
I guess we just don't know exactly how this is going to affect us until we see the details of the IVA. Would they really do it so that they kill
an entire industry?
I agree, part of the problem is it's being done in smoky rooms and we have little or no visibility of what's going on.
You probably don't want the answer to the second bit, but I believe it's 'yes' if it makes their life easier, doesn't
reduce their power and influence and the publicity isn't too damaging. If the publicity can be spun to be 'good' in their eyes
(safety, emissions, poke in the eye for the rich, think of the children) then they will kill it without compunction. Probably means less than 1000
people put out of work/business which is invisible on their radar.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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02GF74
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 09:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
I guess we just don't know exactly how this is going to affect us until we see the details of the IVA. Would they really do it so that they kill
an entire industry?
We can pretty much assume that the price will be hiked up.
As for killing of an entire industry - why not? the government don't seem to be concerned how the increases in taxes are affecting 4x4 car
manufacturers.
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 03:58 PM |
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Will they kill an entire industry?
Why not? They've (governments in general) have done it before, anyone remember britains coal or steel industries?
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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tks
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 06:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bilbo
I guess we just don't know exactly how this is going to affect us until we see the details of the IVA. Would they really do it so that they kill
an entire industry?
No, i don't think so. If they wanted to do that they already would have done it earlier.
I think that the UKers should be glad that this business is still there ano 2008!
And thats only because of your goverment has done it,building the shemes etc. etc.
I mean look at the emission rulez for SVA!??
Allot of countries think that the UK with those things don't apply the rules.
Many people claim that its insane that ano 2008 you can build a car in your garage wich can touch the road!! in comparing to a microwave which has a
complete computer embedded in it.....
Also many member states are not accepting an SVA/UK car..
So in my opinion the scheme will never go away it will only be revised and grow up a little bit. And if the UK ministers are smart they try to pull
out a EU small series aproval.
And that will open up the market in the EU for sevens with the UK as leading country.
countries like Spain,Portugal, Italy are all good weather / cabrio countries where a open EXPORT route is available once the small series rules are
harmonized...
Tks
p.d. remeber EU is a good thing, you only have to turn it the good way round...
[Edited on 26/2/08 by tks]
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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thomas4age
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| posted on 26/2/08 at 08:52 PM |
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Quite right about your last statement TKS,
But I belive that everyone on here is talking about the LOCOST type of cars, not the Kit's availeble by loads of manufacturers.
As I understand, the car/vehicle in question need to be back-up by the manufacturer of the kit in concern to specific safety systems, which in regard
to IVA, is something you cannot do with a real locost since you build everything yourself.
anyway It could prove very good for the larger manufactures in the UK exactly for the reason TKS provides in his post.
for instance, If the aproval of IVA is to be recognised in the whole of the EU as roadworthy, there are no limits anymore to export to for instance
france and italy, 2 countrys in which it is now pretty much not possible to register a NON Type aproved car even if it's allready on UK
plates.
The route we dutchi's take Now is like this:
1)Get kit in Uk transport to holland
2)Build kit at home keep al receipts of parts
3)Make friends with englishman and have him make an SVA apointment
4)transport finnished car to UK
5)SVA it
6)after approval register the car to Englishmans name wait for numberplates
7)When plates and V5 are in transport car to holland
9)get the car to the RDW station for technical approval
8)Import the car to holland via customs dutch BPM taxes must be payed (45% on top of the new price of the car... mind you 45% deminishes with age but
not much)
9)wait for dutch plates and dutch V5 to arive (about 2 weeks)
10) if all goes well, you've now payed a lot of money but are finnaly on the road.
as you can see quite a challenge and costly buisness
The BPM taxes can be debated at customs and if all goes well you'll only need to pay 45% BPM tax over the cost of the Kit parts you've
bought at the manufacturer of the kit, since if you have done it right you'll have a bunch of receiptes to show them that are the parts bought
in aftermarket to make up the car, you're not supposed to pay taxes over those twice since you have allready payed VAT over them.
so to get the records straight, please be happy with the fact that you're governement is even trying to organise something for you. and you
don't need to cough up the extra 45% of kitprice.
I just hope for everyones sake that the rules won't become to stringent to the point we're no longer talking sportscars but the borring
stuf we normaly call tin-top.
IVA could prove very good for manufacturers but also destroy the industry lets just hope for the best.
I also do think that the manufacturers that have the SVA route organised very well now, will be the only makes that survive the IVA, in concern to
export sales of non track cars in the future.... funny thing is that those makes allready do have foreighn agents and the rest doesn't.
Grtz Thomas
If only the IVA itself would become availble in all of the EU..........
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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onzarob
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| posted on 27/2/08 at 03:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Guess we'll have to move to Northern Ireland then.
(dvtani is the website of the Northern Ireland dept)
More information
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/sectionecwholevehicletype/keyissues
quote:
4. Small Series
The reduction in volumes eligible for Small Series from 500 to 75 under the RFD for M1 specialist vehicles is a major concern for certain sectors of
the industry, e.g. specialist cars, wheelchair access converted vehicles, and is seen as a major threat to its future. It is also argued that it
undermines efforts to improve production flow, quality and efficiency and takes the industry back to being a craft industry. The option of moving to
full Type Approval is not feasible for the size of company affected given the very significant additional compliance costs that would be involved.
(DfT campaigned on this particular issue during negotiations but was not supported by other Member States. However a number of MEPs are now picking up
on this point and may table amendments to the RFD in the European Parliament. It is also worth noting that another possible route is to opt for
European Small Series Type Approval. Currently this scheme appears not to have a significantly greater cost over National Type Approval and permits a
volume of 1000)
So Caterham/Westfield may be more screwed than us.
[Edited on 26/2/08 by iank]
I just seen all this, I don't think Caterham or Westfield will be worried by this, I suspect they will cash in a they are big enough to get
someone on the case and fill in the consultations and make recommendations to help them continue.
Its the smaller manufacturers who don't have the resources or time to understand the changes and influence the decision process.
I think the small manufactures of this world ie MK, GTS, Sylva etc need to get together and make some noises to or they will be forgotten.
I don't think I will have car on the road by then and it look as if i would be better off building a track car rather than a road legal one
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 27/2/08 at 03:46 PM |
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But the smaller manufacturers don't use small series approval anyway, they just SVA each individual car. Even if they did decide to go
small-series, would they really make more than 75 turnkey cars of the same model in a year?
IVA will not open up the export market as IVA (like SVA in theory) is only acceptable in the country of issue. This is covered in the 'pros and
cons of each approval route' in the DfT leaflet.
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onzarob
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| posted on 27/2/08 at 04:04 PM |
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So caterham and Westfield use SVA for there turnkey cars.
Great so looks like another industry is going to get battered so the corporations can get a strangle hold on everything.
HP like to quote about starting out in a garage, but the way things are going innovation in all technical aspects will be lost
Until a draft IVA document is released then we will have no idea, just speculation
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tks
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| posted on 27/2/08 at 07:19 PM |
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(I use the manufacture MK but it could be anyone really)
SVA ==> IVA
And small series = small series..
The problem is that every car wich comes from MK is different. The cars are to personalised for that. Then you will need allot of approvals.
But ok lets say they can get the approvals for 10grand. As soon as the rulez changes they will need to reapply for a recertification.
if it still meets its valid until date will be lengthened else it will fall and you will need to re apply changing your product.
Apart from the fact if they can (model wise/ type wise/ variant wise) you have got the point that every system wich produces on such way products will
need some sort of quality system, how much kitcar manufactures have a quality system running??? The quality system assures that every product leaving
the factory is the same as the tested / approved one...
In my opinion what should be raised is a system in wich individual part are certified because you can turn it the way you want but MK only produces
the frames etc. etc.
WE actually build the car ourselfes.
Sow in fact we only need a scheme in wich we join all our E marked items togetther and say this works than it automaticly will work.
(else it cant be E marked)
Sow the bare chasis can be approved by MK.
And the changes they are allowed to make (variants) will be within 3KGS and 1Mtr of tube etc. then a MK chasis can be approved and the engine mounts
could be varying using the same approval.
Then the chassis will have its unique number assigned by the manufacturer. It will receive its Ex number etc. etc.
And then we all can use those frames for our cars. In the event you build something your self, then in my opinion that car/frame will need to walk a
more expensive and be better checked route. In the end its a one off ==> IVA
In my opinion if you then have build your MK they should examine your car and give you your certificate with that certificate you then can apply for a
SHORT IVA wich will consist in documents of used components E number check and basic overall quality + Emissions.
The Long IVA will then be involved with tests on a torsion bridge etc. etc.
If the system will become this way only the one offs will be more expensive, the manufactures will be able to sell abroad europe and the quality will
be assured.
IMHO the kitcar industry needs to raise its voice and tell the government that they want to enter Europe with their product.
I mean in the end what we all do is using already checked components. And overall all the shemes around europe are there for complete 100% new designs
using self manufactured uprights etc. etc.
In the moment that UK manufactures can mark their chasis with their own numbers and E approvals then Europe will open itself automaticly.
Remember that this ongoing changing process until allot of member states don't see any problem any more with a UKcar touching their lanes...
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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