DavidW
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 06:29 AM |
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I was always surprised it was only a one off payment. Well worth the money as I don't think I would have been able to build my car without it.
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LBMEFM
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 06:51 AM |
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The amount of help, friends I have made and knowing that if I have a problem, sometimes not even concerning a car, I can discuss it here. Car clubs
have an annual subscription and for the sort of advice available on this site it is priceless. Therefore I think it's a very fair price to pay,
long live the Locost site. (Not available to tight gits). 
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l0c0st
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lexus
All of this stuff now has me hacked off enough to post!
Yes, some sort of advance announcement would have been appropriate. But there wasn't, so we are where we are.
We all spend some £000's on our cars. So surely the site is worth a £5.00 donation.
If not, will one of the people complaining please volunteer to do it all for nothing
Totally agree with this.
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Guinness
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:28 AM |
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I'm sorry, but I can totally understand Chris's point of view here.
This site / forum started as something to support / run alongside Chris's hobby. Over the years it's become a victim of its own
success.
Chris has always upheld the "locost" nature of the site, allowing free access for all.
We are not plagued by crappy adverts, the few that are around are discrete and as such probably don't earn Chris much income.
The costs involved in running the site have increased massively as the membership has grown / we all add more posts / photos.
Chris has paid for most of these costs out of the profits of his other web business, which is very generous.
As he has now pointed out it has cost him almost a Caterham, rather than a locost!
I donated a few years back, and will contribute again shortly.
I do think that the changes could have been managed / publicised a bit better, but that's par for the course for a developing site. I'm
sure any changes Chris makes next time will be announced well in advance.
Mike
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graememk
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:30 AM |
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chrisw
i dont think anyone would mind paying up, its just the lack of information given to us and the way you have gone about it.
personaly i think you would be better off charging £5 then you get the facility to store photos on the site and you get a 30 min delay on all posts
if you pay you get to post xxx amount per day, or something along those lines.
people dont like change, myself i paid up as soon as you put up the nag screen a while ago.
got to admit i think you've over reacted with mr gibs though but at the end of the day its your site, but come on i think you must of taken what
he said the wrong way, be the better chap.
[Edited on 21/7/09 by graememk]
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scootz
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:35 AM |
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Surely by now the myth that the Internet just 'happens' has blown over. Of course it's only fair that the person who facilitates the
'happening' should be compensated for the time / money that he / she has put in. And if they can make a little on top too, then fair
enough... your thread has just reminded me I've only made the one contribution - will sort that out in a minute or two.
Sorry, but this thread has really p*ssed me off.
Get a grip!
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:40 AM |
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probably best to end this thread soon 
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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grazzledazzle
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:42 AM |
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I agree at a £5 you can't really complain.
However there is one thing missing from the beermat calculations and that is the revenue from the advertising.
You either tell people the finances are non of their business or you have to give all the facts in my opinion.
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scootz
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:43 AM |
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Ps... the fact that you have felt the need to post this thread only suggests to me you're a casual user as it's been done to death in the
last week.
For me, it's one of the few sites I check out almost daily (whether I post or not - I take something from it each time I log-in).
So, yes - it is right and proper that 'casual' users who just float about in the hope of buying cheap parts should not get to do so
without making some sort of contribution to the site upkeep.
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Benzine
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 07:54 AM |
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ChrisW has a new moat around his house thanks to LCB, I've seen it!
Srsly though, change it so avatars & pix aren't hosted here. In the 5 years I've been on here I've never hosted an avatar here
and I've hosted one picture (gone now). I find it more of a pain to host pics here than to use photobucket/imageshack etc, let them foot the
bill
[Edited on 21/7/09 by Benzine]
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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scootz
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:00 AM |
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Pps... the last time we both contributed to the same thread, you told us about these new 220bhp X-flows that they 'still build in South
Africa' at bargain prices. Not turning this personal or being arsey, but you never got back to us with the source of these engines. Any update
(or was it a different engine / or just plain bollocks?).
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
ChrisW has a new moat around his house thanks to LCB, I've seen it!
Srsly though, change it so avatars & pix aren't hosted here. In the 5 years I've been on here I've never hosted an avatar here
and I've hosted one picture (gone now). I find it more of a pain to host pics here than to use photobucket/imageshack etc, let them foot the
bill
[Edited on 21/7/09 by Benzine]
I think the avatar limit was really to stop most of the screen being wasted with huge avatars but its a good idea to host as many pictures on sites
designed for just that
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Benzine
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Pps... the last time we both contributed to the same thread, you told us about these new 220bhp X-flows that they 'still build in South
Africa' at bargain prices. Not turning this personal or being arsey, but you never got back to us with the source of these engines. Any update
(or was it a different engine / or just plain bollocks?).
wrong chap :/
I wouldn't promote any engines in a country that still hasn't ended apartheid
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:10 AM |
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ChrisW, I know that the £5min Donation is voluntarily, but surely your thought process in regard to this is in keeping with the ethos of how
the site was created in the first place.
Which is great, but as has been pointed out by several people, the site is bigger than that now, hence the need for a few extra pennies for
upkeep/advancement.
I have a few thoughts:
1. Why don't you have people sign up and read a note/banner that says something like;-
"You can sign up for free, but the site costs £xxxx to run, I would like you to experience it for free for one month and then if you like what
you see and think it's worth a donation, then £5 would be greatly appreciated, and a little more would be very generous."
2. I think it was stupid, silly, childish and purile to treat ChrisG the way you did.
3. More involvement by you, in a non threatening manner/more controlled manner, or leave the posting and control of "people" to Foxxie,
and you control the I.T. side.
(This is just because of how you choose to come across, and I understand that it might be frustrating, but at the end of the day, it's been a
bit "toys out of the pram", on occasion...
4. Weekly/Monthly updates on the new site, with accurate time frames. I don't mind waiting a year for anything, UNLESS, I'm told I only
have to wait a month first, and then another month etc.
Hope what I said doesn't offend. It's not meant to. I couldn't really be bothered with all this nonsense, but I thought it was worth
trying to be a bit constructive and move onwards etc...
Steve
ETA:- I knew I'd forgotten something!
2. (what was meant to be point 2!) You could have a similar Message sent out automatically to members every year or two years, suggesting that if they
are still enjoying the site and would like to make an additional donation then that would be greatly received.
When I changed my name from worX last year after I got married, and then lost my job, I was totally devoid of money (and still am!) so couldn't
upgrade my new status to contributor, because even though it's a fiver, I just don't have it ATM. So despite the falling out we had in the
past, and my opinion about it and some recent behaviour, I was willing (if unable) to donate again. It's just your approach to the donations in
the first place (see point 1.) and the way that this newest for sale "feature" rolled out...
ATB
[Edited on 21/7/09 by Steve Hignett]
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40inches
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Ps... the fact that you have felt the need to post this thread only suggests to me you're a casual user as it's been done to death in the
last week.
For me, it's one of the few sites I check out almost daily (whether I post or not - I take something from it each time I log-in).
So, yes - it is right and proper that 'casual' users who just float about in the hope of buying cheap parts should not get to do so
without making some sort of contribution to the site upkeep.
Totally agree with the above. I can't see the revenue from the tiny amount of advertising on here making up the £15,000 shortfall!
I can't think of any other resource, with as much help and information as this site, that is available for free!!!
Far from being closed or deleted, this thread should be a sticky!
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scootz
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:13 AM |
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No Benzine... not referring to thee!
The x-flow claim was made in an older thread by the Thread Starter (Thunderace?).
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tegwin
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:15 AM |
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My only slight concern is that if things are not clear then we begin to scare off new members to the site....
Yes, you need some sort of "bonus" for those who have paid the £5....
Why not make it so you HAVE to be a contributor to create a new thread in the for sale/wanted area.. But make the threads available to all right
away..
New members will see the classfieds and may join up for that reason...
And as has already been said, please PLEASE make sure you are more transparant and give more warning if you are planning change... it takes some of us
a long time to come to terms with such things!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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Benzine
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
No Benzine... not referring to thee!
The x-flow claim was made in an older thread by the Thread Starter (Thunderace?).
ahh kk np ^_^
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:23 AM |
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Err, is it only me that thinks this poll isn't quite correct - you are not being asked to pay the £5 donation to see the For-Sale bit, you are being delayed 48hrs so that the people who have donated to the site get to see it first???
quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
is it fair to ask guys to pay to see the forsale bit
this is a locost site so why ask you to pay
whats he going to ask us to pay for next i see it as a money earner rather than cash for the site ,
bet he will make £1000s out of it.
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thunderace
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 posted on 21/7/09 at 08:49 AM |
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i done this post just to see how well you would defend this site lol
i will be paying lol
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 08:50 AM |
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I DO NOT BELIEVE IT!
1) I do not believe all this wingeing over contributing less than the cost of a packet of fags to be able to access such a brilliant resource. I for
one would have been totally stuiffed with just 'The Book'.
2) I cannot belive Mr. Whippy thinks he's 'ordinary'.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 09:09 AM |
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I dont understand why there seems to be an underlying tone from a few people that Chris stands to make a lot of money out of this site
My thoughts;
1. Why the hell shouldnt he? (well maybe not a lot, but at least a modest income to cover time).
2. He wont by getting the odd £5 on a sporadic basis.
3. The site must cost to keep running, and probs a lot so why cant it generate a bit.
4. Did the founder of Google do their site for nowt?
5. Did the founder of ebay do theirs for nowt? etc etc etc
6. AFAIK this site is not a charity. I would say it is fair for those that contribute time and effort into its smooth operation get a modest fee for
their efforts (ie Chris and Fozzie).
7. I wouldnt do it for nowt.
Personally i see £5 as a pitence for what we get back in return. i wouldnt have a major issue in the contribution being requested on a yearly or every
2 years basis. And if Chris decides a small fee for his time would be due (as im sure the site takes a lot more looking after now vs when it was
started) then it is up to him what he spends that fee on.
Possibly the only thing missing is some form of 'rules' (bad term!) around how people are invited to contribute. Im guessing there cant be
a membership as such as that would change the dynamics of the site and push it into a business, however, for instance, suggesting a contribution every
so often might be valid, and in return you get some contributor priviledges.
I like the idea that you have to be a contributor to post and reply in Forsale or wanted section, however anyone can view only.
Or to summarise - COUGH UP (if you can afford it of course).
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Benzine
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 09:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
4. Did the founder of Google do their site for nowt?
5. Did the founder of ebay do theirs for nowt? etc etc et
Wikipedia did fwiw
HTH
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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phoenix70
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 09:49 AM |
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It always amazes me on how people complain over the smallest things. I remember back in my Karting days, people used to complain if the club wanted to
put the membership fees up. Back then it was £60 a year, that got you 365 access to the track, these were the same people that thought nothing of
blowing £200 an event on tyres and yet they didn't want to spend £60 on a years membership.
Personally I think it would be fair to introduce an annual membership to this site, and I certainly didn't think twice about contributing.
Just my opinion
Scott
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DarrenW
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| posted on 21/7/09 at 10:04 AM |
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I know what you mean Pheonix. Maybe the same people think it is a good idea to go out on strike each year to cripple the country rather than focus on
continuous improvement ans safeguard our futures....... but i digress.
Maybe if it was set up as a locostbuilders owners club that you join that then gives you free access to the forum. Problem is this invokes a whole
different set of parameters and is a major digression from the format that is in use currently. With that in mind maybe evolving the current situation
into a free area and a contributors area is the way to go. In essence the commercial areas can be posted into by either traders or contributing
private sellers but viewable by all. I was wondering if a pay-per-ad idea was workable but that will have issues on its own.
At the end of the day it doesnt matter which way Chris changed things we would have a debate. He has introduced a system that he is comfortable with
and which presumable means the site can continue in its current format for the next few years, so for me im more than happy with that. If in afew
years technology involves and means we need a whole new hosting set up then he can propose changes at that time, but for now we all get a free
technical and social network with the chance to freely trade our wares should we wish to make a miniscule contribution. Simples.
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