mr henderson
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 02:49 PM |
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Jury told not unlawful killing
The coroner has instructed the jury on the de Menezes inquest that they cannot find that the unfortunate chap was 'unlawfully killed'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5273664.ece
I know that the family would prefer that everybody involved was flogged to death with lengths of acid dipped barbed wire, but it seems to me
ridiculous to suggest that it was anything other than a tragic mistake
John
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MikeLR
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 02:54 PM |
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Does it mean that he was lawfully killed them.
Mike
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 02:58 PM |
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personally I think they should have been jailed
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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scootz
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:00 PM |
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Who?
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mr henderson
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeLR
Does it mean that he was lawfully killed them.
Mike
Not really, more that he wasn't unlawfully killed
John
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Who?
the Brazilian who was shot by the police on the train during the london bombings cos he had a puffy jacket on (they do look very silly)
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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scootz
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:04 PM |
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Phew... I thought you were about to come away with something controversial, such as "all the police involved'! 
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JAG
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:04 PM |
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The person who should be jailed is the senior policeman/policewoman who devised this method of dealing with suicide bombers.
Summary execution SHOULD be illegal for all. This case suggests that it's only illegal to kill without warning if you're a member of the
public. It's OK if you're a copper!
I can't think of any other way of dealing with them but the number of suicide bombers on the streets of Great Britain is so low that I'm
prepared to risk being blown up rather than risk another innocent mans life at the hands of our police force.
[Edited on 2/12/08 by JAG]
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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scootz
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JAG
The person who should be jailed is the senior policeman/policewoman who devised this method of dealing with suicide bombers.
I can't think of any other way of dealing with them but the number of suicide bombers on the streets of Great Britain is so low that I'm
prepared to risk being blown up rather than risk another innocent mans life at the hands of our police force.
Hmmm... you do remember the hysteria at the time? London was being blown to smithereens and everyone was on edge.
Funny how these things get 'forgotten'!
PS - I'm pretty sure the H&S inquest already established there was no 'single' devised means of dealing with suicide bombers!
The poor sods who pulled the trigger (repeatedly) thought they were dealing with a man who had a bomb wrapped round him! Pretty heroic (wether they
shouted 'armed police' or not), but no... we forget this because we need to find fault and blame people!
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:13 PM |
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What seems to be not mentioned was that his visa had expired and that he was in this country illegally. Had he abided by the law, then this
wouldn't have happened to him.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:14 PM |
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Maybe these should come with a warning label –
‘DANGER! This clothing may be mistaken for a terrorist explosive device!!
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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mr henderson
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by JAG
The person who should be jailed is the senior policeman/policewoman who devised this method of dealing with suicide bombers.
I can't think of any other way of dealing with them but the number of suicide bombers on the streets of Great Britain is so low that I'm
prepared to risk being blown up rather than risk another innocent mans life at the hands of our police force.
Hmmm... you do remember the hysteria at the time? London was being blown to smithereens and everyone was on edge.
Funny how these things get 'forgotten'!
PS - I'm pretty sure the H&S inquest already established there was no 'single' devised means of dealing with suicide bombers!
The poor sods who pulled the trigger (repeatedly) thought they were dealing with a man who had a bomb wrapped round him! Pretty heroic (wether they
shouted 'armed police' or not), but no... we forget this because we need to find fault and blame people!
Totally agree. It absolutely baffles me why some people hate the police so much.
John
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scootz
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:17 PM |
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Nope... The North Face jackets are perfectly safe.
It's the TKMaxx 'knife-jackets' that are the problem!
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:23 PM |
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oh very cool, does he say different phrases when you pull the cord ? - 'giz ya money! cos it need ma fix!'
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Totally agree. It absolutely baffles me why some people hate the police so much.
John
tbh dude can't say I have any love or respect for the police, been on the receiving end of some quite appalling behaviour from them a few times,
wouldn't help them if they asked - The term 'bunch of animals' would be the first thing that pops in my head...
[Edited on 2/12/08 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:31 PM |
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call that a knife?
this is a knife! 
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scootz
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:32 PM |
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No THIS is a knife!
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woodster
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:33 PM |
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Who would have thought under a labour government
A shoot to kill policy at the MET
Arrest of an opposition MP for whistle blowing
DNA data base even if you have done nothing wrong
Anti terror laws used against a friendly country ...Iceland
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mr henderson
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
oh very cool, does he say different phrases when you pull the cord ? - 'giz ya money! cos it need ma fix!'
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Totally agree. It absolutely baffles me why some people hate the police so much.
John
tbh dude can't say I have any love or respect for the police, been on the receiving end of some quite appalling behaviour from them a few times,
wouldn't help them if they asked - The term 'bunch of animals' would be the first thing that pops in my head...
Well, I've had some bad experiences with some Sottish people, does that mean that every time I hear of an incident involving one or more Scots I
should assume that they are to blame?
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scootz
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
A shoot to kill policy at the MET
It is (and always has been) a shoot to stop policy - not kill... there is an accepted logic that 'stopping' may result in
'killing'. Hence the popular misconception!
In the case of the firearms guys on the train that day - if they truly believed that they were dealing with a man who was strapped with explosives and
was about to detonate, then shooting him repeatedly in the head (as unpalatable as that sounds) is pretty much the only sure-fire (no pun intended)
was of 'stopping' him!
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
oh very cool, does he say different phrases when you pull the cord ? - 'giz ya money! cos it need ma fix!'
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Totally agree. It absolutely baffles me why some people hate the police so much.
John
tbh dude can't say I have any love or respect for the police, been on the receiving end of some quite appalling behaviour from them a few times,
wouldn't help them if they asked - The term 'bunch of animals' would be the first thing that pops in my head...
Well, I've had some bad experiences with some Sottish people, does that mean that every time I hear of an incident involving one or more Scots I
should assume that they are to blame?
if they're wearing a kilt and have their face painted blue an white its a good bet 
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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scootz
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:49 PM |
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Which brings me on to the subject of that ex-squaddie who was allegedly beaten-up by officers and it was caught on camera.
The TV and press reported that one officer repeatedly punched the guy while others 'restrained' him. That's absolutely not what I
saw!
There were 3 officers - one had successfully placed his right arm behind his back. Another was struggling to get the left arm behind his back because
he was resisting. The third officer then punched the guy several times on the tricep / bicep area to weaken the muscle. The guy was then restrained
and handcuffed.
Absolutely text-book stuff and AS PER TRAINING!
So, it's not pretty to watch and ust because the general public at large doesn't llike the look of it, 3 cops are now facing prosecution.
What the hell for?
Certainly can't be for the manner of arrest!
Maybe there is dubiety surrounding the REASON for arrest (had he committed an arrest-able offence or not). I'e no idea, but the media
aren't raising that particular issue - they're just going on about the punches!
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:49 PM |
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i see than most of the replies on here come from people who dont live in and near london.
believe me when all that lot was going on,and even now there are some dodgy looking people around and they got odd looks,people moving away like they
were lepers etc,i can see how it happened.
and what if he had been a bomber and 100 people had died because poor old pc plod had not pulled the trigger,what would people have said then?.
plod are in a no win situation and mistakes happen,he was unlucky.
i feel for pc plod and his family
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 03:51 PM |
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In this case the police made an understandable mistake in difficult confused and desperate times times ----- the fact is in London even in a
terrorist alert the guy was a 100 less times likely to get shot by the police than in his home country in Rio or any of Brazils other cities. .
It is tough on his family but I can't help think that financial gain for some and political gain for others is the real motivation for all the
stir.
However the case about 10 yeares back of the scotsman shot and killed by the police for just carrying a chair leg a few years back is a different
matter in my eyes that was murder.
Likewise the equally innocent guy about 25 years or more back who was just quietly driving his yellow home one night and was stopped and shot about
a dozen times by the special branch and amazingly survived..
[Edited on 2/12/08 by britishtrident]
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JAG
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 04:24 PM |
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Ok some interesting points of view here
I don't hate the Police or the British Government but;
I do believe that this type of behaviour (shooting suicide bombers) is more likely to end in the death of an innocent man than in the death of a
terrorist.
It's simple odds - there are far more innocent men than there are terrorists. I would rather risk being blown up by a terrorist (because
they're pretty rare) than risk being shot by an armed response policeman (who are not as rare as terrorists).
On a slightly higher plane - I do not believe that 'the state' (that's any state not just the UK) should be able to kill anyone
without a fair trial no matter what they're suspected of.
I believe we are a 'hairs breadth' from this country becoming a Police state.
It's because most people seem to think that the only way to respond to terrorism is to tighten up on law and order and harrass you and I - the
innocent citizens.
The only way to deal with the problem is to engage them (terrorists) and discuss their problems and work towards solving them. Like we tried to do in
Northern Ireland - and Yes I know that's not really worked but you've got to try.
You CAN'T just keep shooting back - look how that's working for Israel and Palestine 
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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mr henderson
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 04:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
However the case about 10 yeares back of the scotsman shot and killed by the police for just carrying a chair leg a few years bag is a different
matter in my eyes that was murder.
You must be referring to the shooting of Harry Stanley. Why do you think it was murder? Even the IPCC don't think so.
John
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