norfolkluego
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 08:59 PM |
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Towing dolly
Simple question, legal or not.
I thought I'd read somewhere that they were only legal for use by a licenced recovery service, not for general use. Thing is I was speaking to a
policeman (off duty) recently who uses one himself!!
Would be so much cheaper and easier to store than a trailer.
Saw this one which looks good.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5t-CAR-RECOVERY-A-FRAME-TOWING-DOLLY-TRAILER-3-5-tons_W0QQitemZ160331879790QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Recovery_Tools?hash=item16033
1879790&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
Any opinions?
[Edited on 29/4/09 by norfolkluego]
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:03 PM |
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do a search  , comes up every few weeks on every car based forum in the universe.
Not legal
[Edited on 29/4/09 by cd.thomson]
Craig
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blakep82
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:06 PM |
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ooh a bent copper
only to be used for recovery, not legal for general towing, but the risk is up to you
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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PhilCross66
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:14 PM |
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A dolly is for recovery only.
A frames like in your Ebay listing are different, there is a fact sheet from the DFT about their use somewhere.
Ive just used 1 to take my car for its inspection at Leeds and no-one complained about its legality including the 2 sets of traffic police at VOSA or
the traffic car that followed me on the Leeds ring road.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:17 PM |
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It may be legal(-ish), but if the towed vehicle has any wheels on the road then it has to be road-legal - MOT (if old enough), insurance and tax.
Not much good for a trackday-only car.
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PhilCross66
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:22 PM |
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Thats not what the DFT fact sheet says, it says
we believe the "A" frame and car become a single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer. As a consequence the car and
A-frame are required to meet the technical requirements for trailers when used on the road in Great Britain
Trailers dont need tax, MOT or insurance
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owelly
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:27 PM |
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But ANY brakes fitted to ANY trailer have to be auto-reverse item which car brakes are not.......
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:30 PM |
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Hmmm - not sure I'd want to argue that one in court!
Here's the sheet - LINKY. It seems to suggest that the
'trailer' (i.e. car on an A-frame) must display triangular reflectors, have lights linked to the towing car, show the towing car's
number (trailer lighting bar thing?) and, if over 750kg, must have brakes linked to the towing vehicle... a car makes a heavy trailer.
...not sure it's worth the faffing about.
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PhilCross66
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:30 PM |
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Dont need brakes for less than 750kg, oops too slow.
My kit is only about 450kg and the A frame is about 20-30kg so its well within the 750kg limit.
[Edited on 29/4/09 by PhilCross66]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 09:34 PM |
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Quote from the sheet:
"However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all
brakes in that system must operate correctly. The regulations do not include design
constraints on how this should be achieved but, for example, it could be met by direct linking
of the trailer brakes to the brake system of the towing vehicle or by automatic inertia (overrun)
operation via the towing hitch. "
The bit at the end is also significant:
'From the above I hope it is clear that we believe the use of "A" frames to tow cars behind
other vehicles is legal provided the braking and lighting requirements are met. However, while
this is our understanding of the meaning of the Regulations, it is only the Courts which can
reach a definitive interpretation of the law.'
Who wants to be the first test case? 
[Edited on 29/4/09 by David Jenkins]
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owelly
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 10:16 PM |
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I researched this very thoroughly a while ago as I was going to produce A-frames to sell. I spoke to a guy who was also making them to tow smaqll cars
behind camper vans and his system had the over-run coupling connected to the towed cars brake pedal. It was a very good system but which ever way you
follow the regulations, they always culminate with the same answer, they're illegal.
The towed car is either a trailer, or a towed car.
If it's a trailer, no matter what it's weight, if it has brakes fitted (which most cars do) they have to be trailer specific. ie auto
reverse.
If it's a towed car, it has to be road legal. It has to have third party liability insurance, have a current VED, be MOT'd and be road
worthy.
And then we get on to the maximum gross weight of the outfit.......Total Train Weight.
That is the maximum the tow car is permitted to carry and tow, plus the maximum the towed car is permitted to carry or pull. Add these together, even
if both cars are empty, and this is the figure the VOSA guys will be quoting when you're in the dock.
Loads of folks use dollies, A-frames, tow poles and ropes and most get away with it. You takes your chances.....
[Edited on 29/4/09 by owelly]
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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PhilCross66
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 10:30 PM |
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It would be very easy to just take off the calipers and tie wrap them to the arms, then there are no brakes fitted.
Surely if these things are as illegal as some say the police would be having a field day prosecuting motorists who use them, after all they love to
persecute us for anything.
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owelly
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| posted on 29/4/09 at 10:48 PM |
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They will. One day!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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zetec
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| posted on 30/4/09 at 06:23 AM |
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As with anything like this no one seems to care too much until there's an accident, and your track car parts company with the towing car,
jumpers the centre island and kills someone! At this point you can be sure the CPS and your insurance company will find the answer and I bet it
won't go in your favour  .
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PhilCross66
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| posted on 30/4/09 at 07:42 AM |
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Obviously if you lose your car off the back and it kills somebody you will be heavily punished. But the same would be true if it was just a regular
trailer because you would have just killed somebody by your negligence.
There is no more reason for it to become detached than any other trailer and just incase it does I also have mine chained to the car, as per the
rules, so it still has to follow me while I stop.
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balidey
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| posted on 30/4/09 at 08:07 AM |
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Yes its a grey area, but they are not illegal.
My brother-in-law uses one every day for work. He has had several stops by the police and VOSA. Has he ever been prosecuted? No. If it was illegal
then he would have been prosecuted.
The problem with road traffic acts and laws is that some can be open to interpretation. And no matter who interprets them (you, me, policeman, VOSA
tester) they are doing exactly that, interpreting. And that means absolutly sod all. If a copper tells you its illegal to drive whilst listening to
Motorhead because he interpeted a law wrongly, does that make it illegal? No. Same with these towing dollies. They are not illegal. My brother has had
prohibition orders placed on him for using dollies, and then had them overturned. He has been pulled by road traffic officers and told he can not
drive away. And then after lengthy radio conversations, the officer has let him go on his way. How could this happen if they were illegal? Answer is,
they are NOT.
YET.
When the road traffic acts are updated I am sure they will add in some extra wording that clearly defines their use, but until then, they are fine to
be used. And thats for normal towing or recovery, as as far as I have found there is no law that defines their use. The only way you could be
prosecuted for using one now would be for you to be taken to crown court for using one and then have the judge read all the relevant laws and then for
him, and him alone, to make a decision on what he thinks the laws exact wording means. And if it is a grey area then two different judges on two
different days could make two different rulings. And that would only happen if it gets taken to court in the first place, which I have yet to hear any
cases of.
Few, that was long winded. But I know how complex interpreting laws is, as I often have to deal with it in my line of work.
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 30/4/09 at 09:31 AM |
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Wow this is complicated
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 30/4/09 at 09:45 AM |
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Ignoring the legal bit, and purely out of curiosity, what is this setup like to tow?
I've towed a car on a trailer and that wasn't too bad - just wondering if there were any issues with this sort of A-frame.
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 30/4/09 at 10:07 AM |
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The law could really do with revising - why is it that every time politicians bring in a law, they never make it clear and concise? In league with the
lawyers maybe? Logically and morally, if a trailer of up to 750kg doesn't need brakes, then a lightweight car (regardless of MGW), weighing
under 750kg when it's being towed, shouldn't and whether it's got them or not should be immaterial. Why on earth they can't
phrase a law to allow that I don't know.
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RoadkillUK
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| posted on 30/4/09 at 12:31 PM |
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Out of interest ... what makes it turn with the towing car?
Roadkill - Lee
www.bradford7.co.uk
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