tendoshingan
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:14 AM |
|
|
Really p*****d off about plagiarism
Just thought I'd vent some fumes and seek some advice on what I should do.
I teach martial arts and have done so for 17 years.
In 1998 my students asked me to make a beginners guide for them. This took 2 years to make and I started selling this in my class for my students
use.
Last night one of my students brought in a published book that another instructor in my martial art has done. This was published in 2007.
On closer inspection although the wording is completely different, the actual format, structure, and photo content are identical to the book that I
have been selling to my students for years.
Even the photos have been staged the same.
The book does have the copyright statement on it and I know this is plagiarism (I teach in a college) but where do I go legally in terms of
redress?
I have sold several dozen of my books to my students since 2000. I know I could get sworn statements off them and the original books that I sold them
if needed.
|
|
|
|
|
bilbo
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:22 AM |
|
|
I would have thought the first place to go is the IPO (http://www.ipo.gov.uk/).
They should be able to adivse and mediate, but I suspect this will have to go to court.
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:26 AM |
|
|
i think if you've got evidence that you started selling your pack in 2000, and evidence of the exact format you *may* have something.
me and my mate do a bit of dance music production, one of the tricks there is post yourself a few copies of the tune and midi tracks and all
associated files on a CD, make sure the envelope is date stamped, and DON'T open it. not sure if books are different. but if you have kept
yourself proof of selling it in the format you did in 2000 it could work out for you
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
bilbo
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:30 AM |
|
|
Just to add; Copyright is an automatic right that you have. Provided you can prove you produced your book before theirs, you should have a strong
case.
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
|
|
|
balidey
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:34 AM |
|
|
Sitting on the fence:
If I was to write a guide to martial arts, from scratch, never having read either book, I guess my work would look very similar, with similar photos,
similar wording to explain techniques.
Who's to say its been plagiarised? If large sections have been 'copied' then yes I agree, but this could just become a very
expensive legal waste of time with no real outcome and costing both parties lots of money, time and stress.
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:47 AM |
|
|
Problems, while not insurmountable, are many
It will cost a lot of money in legal costs if their publisher decides to defend the action.
You'll need to spend money on a specialist lawyer to decide if you have a case.
It will require a judge (and possibly a jury) to decide if it's a copy.
You'll need proof of being the first to publish.
Some things aren't copyrightable and I don't know how a book like yours is viewed, things like recipes and lists for example are quite
hard to defend.
I think they way it starts is your legal people send a cease and desist letter to their publisher along with a copy of your book and some evidence
that you published early 2000's.
In the best case their publisher looks at the evidence and goes 'oh sh*t' stop publishing cut you a smallish cheque to get you off their
back, and sue their author to get back their losses. Any attempt by them to defend the action will require a lot of time, effort and money on your
part.
If you have a publisher this is something they should be handle once you let them know of the pirate copy.
Good luck.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
|
|
|
Moorron
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 09:06 AM |
|
|
Is you book better then theirs? if so then just spin kick their heads in!
On a seriouse not theres not much you can do other then seek legal advice but unless you making £1000+ on this its not going to be worth it.
If you dont do any of the above then you could try and find out if they are doing it legit and paying the tax on their income. If not you could grass
them up but thats only to make you feel better.
Good luck.
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
|
|
|
tendoshingan
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 09:11 AM |
|
|
Thanks for the input so far.
I have no publisher as my book just started out as something for students in my class, that I made, printed off and bound for them.
As for proof of first publishing apart from witness statement they can have some of the original books if they wish. The photos have me with hair
(that's all gone now  )
I can get several dozen witness statement from my former students who have purchased the books from me, these include Drs, and MD's of major
companies and also a couple of university lecturers. I also just found a website link to where I used to work that has an archive of old web posts. It
is dated 30-10-01 and mentions my book by name.
I know what others have said too.
I wrote my book as a beginners guide, with lots and lots of how-to photos, and while there were very few books at the time, nothing went into as much
detail, especially with photos.
This other book is not only similar it is almost identical in the structure and includes a section that I specifically put in, as no-one in my martial
art had clarified it before, which is practically verbatim in this other book.
It is this structure and how-to photos that have been setup the same and posed identically.
Having just become a dad and having just finished my car (GBS Zero) I have no money left to pursue legal action. But I shall be seeking some advice
asap.
|
|
|
Macbeast
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 09:16 AM |
|
|
If there is an association that regulates yor martial art then you could complain to them and they might take action against the plagiarist.
You don't appear to have much of a legal case though if he didn't use your own photos and the text has been re-written.
Treat it as a compliment and move on 
[Edited on 2/6/09 by Macbeast]
|
|
|
balidey
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 09:16 AM |
|
|
If you sold to Dr's and MD's is there a chance one of those knows a lawyer that will just write you a letter?
Rather than going down the official legal route, perhaps a letter from a lawyer saying similarities have been noticed, please comment before any legal
action is started? Maybe thats enough to put the wind up 'em?
And what are you trying to achieve? Some sort of money? Or for them to halt printing? Or force them to re-write and re-photograph?
|
|
|
Dangle_kt
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 09:18 AM |
|
|
you should have smelt a rat when this guy bought your book
all the best getting it sorted. sounds like a tricky one, as the text isn't the same.
|
|
|
tendoshingan
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 09:34 AM |
|
|
I am not really looking for any redress in terms of money but an actual acknowledgement or reference to me that the work is not his and is not
original would have been nice.
As for going with the martial arts association, almost pointless, full of politics that I really don't want to get into.
As it stands even I think it is a very difficult thing to prove, but I am damned sure that their book is a direct copy in photos and structure of
mine.
|
|
|
MakeEverything
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 09:48 AM |
|
|
If he has used your exact photos, then you have a case, otherwise, you dont have a case for the 'format' of a book. It would be argued
that there are only so many ways you can write a book, and it is "Co-incidence" that the formats are the same or similar. Unless the
content is the same, paragraph by paragraph, i dont think youll have a chance.
If there are close similarities, go to a solicitor, and get them to write a letter. ITs worth a shot, and the worst that they'll say is
"Dont be silly".
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
|
|
|
oldtimer
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 12:40 PM |
|
|
I too think you will have some difficulties esp if photos and text are different but similar. If you have only sold a few dozen copies any action
other than contact to the other party to find out the story would, I'm sure, be uneconomic.
|
|
|
Confused but excited.
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 03:01 PM |
|
|
I think you would be flogging a dead horse mate.
The basics are the same for most styles/systems of karate for example. So if you check almost all books of basic karate ie; any you can buy in a shop
are almost identical, because the all have the same strikes, blocks and stances.
If on the other hand you teach somthing more unusual, such as Kempo, Wing Chun, Systema etc then who knows? Are there any other books showing
techniques from your style? If your students are asking for them, perhaps not.
Your first redress is with the hierachy of your particular system (if you both teach the same style), otherwise; you teach martial arts, give him a
good kicking.
This has worked successfully for thousands of years and is a Locost solution. 
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
|
|
|
Jasper
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 03:08 PM |
|
|
You only have to change things a very small amount to avoid copyright law, I too think you're onto a loose there.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
|
|
|
gazza285
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 04:36 PM |
|
|
Not sure this is the best website for talking about stealing ideas?
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
|
|
|
tendoshingan
|
| posted on 2/6/09 at 11:09 PM |
|
|
Well thanks folks for all the replies, I think it is time to let the internet do what it does best.
That is spread the real word.
A few posts (not from me) on some and review sites will do the business and let the world know this plagiarist exists.
Also noted the irony of posting this on this website considering we're almost all trying to copy off one car or another!!!
cheers anyway
|
|
|
bone
|
| posted on 10/6/09 at 05:28 PM |
|
|
taff
stop moaning its a book every body copys somthing every now an then just think off it as a update hahaha you dint sell many books then if you only
sold 1/2 dozern since 2000 thats not even a book a year anyway stephen king write a better novel see you at newark hahaha
always said i left the bag at home
|
|
|
