omega0684
|
| posted on 1/9/09 at 11:07 PM |
|
|
LPG conversions?
does anyone know anything about cars that run LPG,how do they work and has anyone got one?
what are they like to drive?
Is there any difference in vehicle performance?
are they more economical than diesels?
what are the running costs compared to normal cars?
what sort of motorway cruising MPG do you get etc?
cheers
|
|
|
|
|
PAUL FISHER
|
| posted on 1/9/09 at 11:59 PM |
|
|
Have a look on here,should answer most of your questions
http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 12:30 AM |
|
|
100,000 miles P38 4.6 range rover, venturi draw through system, 16mpg, equivilent to 32mpg fuel. small drop in performance, still able to tow 2 ton
trailer at 80 no issues.
100,000 miles, P38 4.6 range rover, squential system, as above for fuel but if anything faster than petrol.
35,000 miles XK8 jag 4.0, sequential mixed system, bit of fuel and LPG to maintain valves 1:12 ratio, combined fuel ~26 mpg, so 50 - 55 mpg in your
pocket.
Mostly motorway mileage, saved a fortune, range rovers much faster than diesel equivilent with vastly better economy, jag as good when just on
petrol.
Jag is £ for £ is the cheapest car I have ever run.
I get good mileage rates from company, must have made £30k over the last 8 years driving quality cars, do my own servicing, fitted gas kits myself.
Regards Mark
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 05:06 AM |
|
|
my mums got a lpg peugeot. its ok on the motorway on gas, but in town its awful. lacks power low down for pulling away, splutters, almost stalls every
time. reckon its not set up right though. you do hear good things about lpg, so its probably just her car
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
t16turbotone
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 05:54 AM |
|
|
Astravan 1.6 lpg 140,000 miles, about £17 to fill gas tank, this returns about 250 motorway miles or a little less round town. Cruises at 80-90 no
problem, been runing lpg for years now...only downside ive noticed is the lpg system requires regular servicing. Another bonus is that the engine oil
never seems to get dirty, really clean and the van coverred 140,000 miles with me and stills burns NO oil
|
|
|
tomblyth
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 06:37 AM |
|
|
deneo on here is a certified auto gas fitter!
|
|
|
big-vee-twin
|
 posted on 2/9/09 at 06:50 AM |
|
|
LPG
I have a Renault R26 (SEE PIC) running on LPG, with only a very small change in performance on Gas, you can switch between the two fuels at the touch
of a button its been installed about 8 months and its great. drives fantastic in town or motorway - the modern systems are extremely good. BRC or
Pirins is what you should look for.
You will do 80% of the mpg on petrol when running on gas i.e on Petrol I do around 30mpg on Gas I do 28 but at half the cost of petrol.
It also is green, reducing your carbon emission by 22-25%.
Make sure you have it done by an LPG Association registered mechanic or your insurer's will not be interested
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 08:31 AM |
|
|
Kits come from many manufacturers and are of variable quality, modern cars especially those with plastic manifolds need sequential injection systems
with one gas injector per cylinder. The control of the gas injection is by an ECU that piggy-backs the main petrol ECU. The gas ecu modifies the
signals from the petrol system and diverts the signal to the gas injectors, as a rsult the engine still runs in closed loop controlled by the petrol
ECU.
I am running a Rover 75 1.8 with the Stag-4 LPG sequential injection system 60 litre tank. Buying LPG from supermarket pumps LPG Fuel cost work out
at between 50 and 55% of running on petrol. Saving over £100 per month. Rate of LPG consumption varies more than petrol but is always 12% to 18%
higher than the petrol consumption.
When working out the economics remember to take into account the distance from the nearest cheap LPG station as LPG from small forecourts can be 50%
more expensive than the supermarkets or direct gas suppliers such as Calor Gas.
To make the economics work a big fuel tank is essential 60litre LPG tank actually holds 48litres of LPG.
Some insurance companies load premiums by about £30 to £45 for LPG however many incliding LV and M&S don't.
Performance wise expect about a 10% reduction in power at higher rpm and very slightly slower throttle response otherwise you can't tell the
difference. Because LPG is higher octane than petrol engines with knock sensors can make better use of LPG and show less power loss and better
throttle response. It is essential that the igintion system be in top notch order as LPG places much greater deamands on the HT side of the
ignition system than petrol. Spark plugs gaps should be reduced by 20%.
DIY conversion is easy anybody who can build a Locost can do -- a conversion on a 4 cylinder with not too many engine access problems takes about 20
hours and can be done in stages with the vehicle only actually off the road for about 3 hours to drill the inlet manifold.
I converted my car fot less than £570 -- including cost of extra tools required for job.
Stag-4 kit is a good kit for car with less than about 120 hp but the best source DIY kits is Tinley Tech who sell Bigas kits at £720 for a
complete 4 cylinder kit. http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/
All sequential systems are set up via software from a laptop or other computers, they self-tune after initial installation and can the mapping can
then be tweaked via software to fine tune.
Another interesting link http://www.ac.com.pl --- conversion manuals for the Stag-4 and Stag 300 systems can be found in the downloads section.
[Edited on 2/9/09 by britishtrident]
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 08:32 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
my mums got a lpg peugeot. its ok on the motorway on gas, but in town its awful. lacks power low down for pulling away, splutters, almost stalls every
time. reckon its not set up right though. you do hear good things about lpg, so its probably just her car
Try reducing the spark plug gap by 20% to 25% from manufacturers settings usually works wonders.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 08:37 AM |
|
|
quote:
Make sure you have it done by an LPG Association registered mechanic or your insurer's will not be interested
Depends a lot on the company many such as LV don't ask and don't need any paperwork or charge a penny extra for LPG conversions.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
hughpinder
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 08:46 AM |
|
|
I have a honda civic 180000 miles on LPG, and a subaru legacy 2.5 which did about 80,000 on it.
I agree with britishtridents findings generally.
My honda system is a 10 year old system and has needed minimal maintenance (about 40 for a seal that perished if I remember correctly). The subaru
runs a newer system.
I use about 20% more gas than petrol on the honda (by volume) and about 10% more on the subaru. The honda shows a distinct loss in torque/power but
not as much as if you went for the next engine size down(1.5 in the hondas case). You can't tell the difference when running on gas on the
subaru.
Regards
Hugh
|
|
|
omega0684
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 12:52 PM |
|
|
how much does a conversion cost?
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 01:37 PM |
|
|
Depends a lot on the car --- more cylinders more cost, amount of working space around the engine also the type of systems. From say 1200 pounds
for sequential injection on a modern 4 cylinder eurobox but if you want to convert an XK8 you are talking a lot more. However some big older
vehicles like the P38 Range Rover can get away with relative simple old style systems.
If you pay to get some one else to do the conversion do as much research as you can into the guy doing the work, LPGA membership sadly is not a
guarantee of ability or workmanship I have seen an awful lot of horror stories on the web concerning LPGA members.
If your vehicle is relatively simple -- ie standard eurobox or 4x4 do the conversion yourself. Most marque specific owners forums have members who
have converted similar vehicles to yours and you will find lots of places on the web for help and support.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 02:11 PM |
|
|
I updated the photos of my DIY conversion in my photo archive http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=gal&user=britishtrident
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
scootz
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 03:23 PM |
|
|
I often wondered about building a 'locost' to run EXCLUSIVELY on LPG. I remember reading some reports of direct injection LPG systems,
but these seem to have dried up.
Maybe I'm thinking too naively here, but LPG is pretty high-octane stuff, so would a system tuned exclusively to LPG not reap performance
rewards too?
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 03:52 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I often wondered about building a 'locost' to run EXCLUSIVELY on LPG. I remember reading some reports of direct injection LPG systems,
but these seem to have dried up.
Maybe I'm thinking too naively here, but LPG is pretty high-octane stuff, so would a system tuned exclusively to LPG not reap performance
rewards too?
Yes --- LPG octane varies by a wide margin but in the UK, Ireland, Germany and Sweeden is usually at least 90% propane propane is roughly 111
RON
In the rest of europe particularly southern europe the composition is more biased towards Butane which has a lower octane number.
But even in the UK the compostion varies a lot as LPG is traded internationally.
One problem with getting power out of an LPG engines is in conventional systems LPG enters the engines as a vapour displacing more the air required
for combustion than petrol in droplet form does.
[Edited on 2/9/09 by britishtrident]
|
|
|
t.j.
|
| posted on 2/9/09 at 04:47 PM |
|
|
http://www.vialle.nl/lpg-producten/de-werking-van-lpi.html?L=1
http://www.brc.it/default.aspx?page=31&lang=en
http://www.koltec-necam.nl/
http://www.prinsautogas.com/en/
Please feel free to correct my bad English, i'm still learning. Your Dutch is awfull! :-)
|
|
|
