Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 08:18 AM |
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Drilling wheel PCD’s, by hand (Drilling the Hub flange not the wheels)
I’ve got some wheels that basically don’t fit the car I want to put them on cos the PCD is totally different. I have however Autocad and was thinking
I could print off a very accurate template I could glue go over the flanges which would give me the exact location of the new holes. I was then going
to center punch the marks and progressively drill out the wholes to the right size using my cool heap of new drills 
Dead easy, what could possibly go wrong…??
[Edited on 14/9/09 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 08:23 AM |
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i re-drilled my cortina hubs to 5 bolt (same PCD). just used a lathe to scribe a circle the correct pcd, some clever maths to work out distance
between each stud and a pillar drill.
done 1400miles with no wobble or shakes
i drilled a 4.5mm pilot hole then went straight through with the 12mm. worked a treat.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 08:34 AM |
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hmm unfortunately the only lathe I have is a wood turning one  but I'm sure the cad drawing is more than accurate enough, I think
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 08:43 AM |
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hmmmm, I wonder how much a wheel has to be out for there to be any noticeable effect?
the lathe method is a good 'un but if you don't have one, rig up a scriber to touch the hub whilst it is on the car and turn the hub to
get the circle. then see how you paper template compares. I guess if the differnece is less than 0.5 mm, then go ahead and drill.
]^^^^ you are drilling, the wheels, not the hub so dunno how you can scribe an accurate circle on them.
quote:
Originally posted by Herr Vipmeister I'm sure the cad drawing is more than accurate enough, I think
You sure? CAD drawings are just drawings from which one takes dimensions to make a part, not for use as paper templates?
I know our photo copier at work copies so that the horizontal distance is slightly different to the vertical difference.
For a word document, that meerkats no difference but does for making a PCB and having the holes on a 0.1 inch matrix, it does  .
I suspect printing will have this issue - if you do go the template route, put some test marks a big distance apart and measure accurately.
[Edited on 14/9/09 by 02GF74]
[Edited on 14/9/09 by 02GF74]
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twybrow
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:02 AM |
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^ wot he said - unless you have access to an expensive plotter, which is regularly checked for calibration, then I would add some sort of refernce X
and Y dimension lines to check when you print....
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Humbug
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:05 AM |
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Yes.. I think the main issue would be centring the template
Good luck
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Humbug
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:07 AM |
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...or, deliberately do the circle off-centre and make some extra money as a clown 
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:12 AM |
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I think if you double check you print out (i.e make a standard length say 10cm and check this with a ditgital caliper) you should get the hole
positions o.k. after center punching. I would not do any of thus unless they are hub centric, if they are I guess a little error is probably not
going to be a problem if not it's going to be a real issue....
I would not dill by hand though I would use a pillar drill and sort some way of clamping the wheel; you want vertical holes! Other wise the hole will
probably drift as you go up in drill sizes... Hopefully your pillar drill has enough reach! If so I would camp every thing to the bench (nice and flat
hopefully) and swing the drill head to allow clearance from the base (i.e. 180 degree from where is should be).. You also want to use some kind of
coolant (paraffin?) when drilling..
Thats how I would try; your risk though might not work
Also you might gave to countersink the holes with the correct tapper (assuming ali wheels..) in which case I don;t know what you would do! In addition
you need to be sure there is enough metal to do all this without weakening the wheel... Maybe it's a bad idea
Cheers
Dan
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:15 AM |
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You’re probably right about the dimensions on a printout often being slightly wrong. Though I can very easily dimensionally check the drawing with a
pair of compasses
Actually just printed 2 of the drawings now putting on at 90 degs to the other and holding them up to the light. Looks spot on Might be onto a
winner here
Oh each hub has a machined center and I've just been given a compass with a knife blade instead of a bit of lead  to cut the center out, good
old dafty’s sitting next to me I give myself a 100% chance of stabbing myself with this thing Also now using photo paper as thats stiffer 
[Edited on 14/9/09 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:41 AM |
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Youll need to get steel inserts for the cones, and Id be using misalignment or "wobble" bolts to allow for any small margin of error.
My Build Thread
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blakep82
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:42 AM |
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eek, i wouldn't
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
Youll need to get steel inserts for the cones, and Id be using misalignment or "wobble" bolts to allow for any small margin of error.
cones? I was using standard ford splined studs that are pressed in from behind the flange and normal alloy wheel bolts
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 09:50 AM |
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just for fun i printed out a pitch circle 1:1 on 4 different printers and they were up to 5mm out from biggest to smallest.
be careful
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Build Photo Album
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 10:07 AM |
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ok, on the nuts then. There are usually steel cones in the wheels to prevent the steel nut/bolt picking up the alloy material.
My Build Thread
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 10:13 AM |
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cheers, looks like we have a good one here, I checked the drawings and their spot on dimensionally, at least to 0.5mm which is more than I'm
bothered about. Pity it takes so long to warm up
I'll post some pictures once I've drilled them and show the amount of run out if any I end up with. If it all goes t$ts up I can just
revert to using the original holes 
[Edited on 14/9/09 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 10:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
ok, on the nuts then. There are usually steel cones in the wheels to prevent the steel nut/bolt picking up the alloy material.
Oh that’s fine, if there's inserts then they'll already be in the wheels anyway. These wheels use the very narrow wheel nuts rather than
the two piece cone type
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James
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 10:35 AM |
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I would have thought it really wouldn't be too hard to get an engineering firm to drill them for you for not much money.
They can use their CNC mill to set datum points and from that get the holes really accurately placed and drilled. Can't cost that much-
I'll DIY most things but this seems a good way to die!
Would it not be easier to drill the hubs to match the wheel than drill the wheels?
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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wicket
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 11:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
cheers, looks like we have a good one here, I checked the drawings and their spot on dimensionally, at least to 0.5mm which is more than I'm
bothered about. Pity it takes so long to warm up
I'll post some pictures once I've drilled them and show the amount of run out if any I end up with. If it all goes t$ts up I can just
revert to using the original holes
[Edited on 14/9/09 by Mr Whippy]
If it all goes t$ts up and you are going to use the original holes, why do it in the first place.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 11:13 AM |
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Ah ha I see I have not made that post very clear...my fault
No I'm drilling the hub flange not the wheel, yeah I put wheel PCD's in the title but I was just referring to their PCD's. Now some
folks posts are making more sense, oh boy...don’t you just love forums
I have other wheels that fit the current PCD but their not what I want on the car
[Edited on 14/9/09 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 11:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
Youll need to get steel inserts for the cones, and Id be using misalignment or "wobble" bolts to allow for any small margin of error.
cones? I was using standard ford splined studs that are pressed in from behind the flange and normal alloy wheel bolts
Is not drilling the hub then pressing in the studs the better option? (I thought that is what you were goona do as opposed to putting extra holes in
the wheel)
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 11:20 AM |
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As long as the wheel is hub-centric i.e. locates on the middle of the hub rather than the bolts/studs, then you could get away with a small amount of
misalignment.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 11:40 AM |
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If the lathe is wood turning, could you still not use it to mark it out? Surely the best "tool" would be something like a
pencil...probably don't even need to turn the power on....
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Mal
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 03:34 PM |
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Drillin Jig
Make an Autocad drawing of the stud holes and small clearance on the central locaton diameter of the hub, send the file to your local laser cutting
company and get them to cut you a disc in 8 or 10mm plate to use as a drilling jig.
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Liam
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 05:43 PM |
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There's an option somewhere on Autocad to calibrate your plotter/printer, though sounds like your setup isn't too far out as it is. Even
with an accurate template, though, you can only hope to achieve 1-2mm accuracy centre punching and drilling by hand. Especially if your heap of new
drills was made in China and cost nowt . So definately use wobble bolts if you want the wheels to stay on.
Liam
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nz_climber
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| posted on 14/9/09 at 11:16 PM |
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Would be alot easier to take them to an engineering company to get them drilled, as you can't drill them on the car anyway, that way
they'll get them in the exact spot. Each time you take transfer a measurement, (from computer to printer, printer to metal) you'll be
introducing more errors.
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