Cheffy
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:00 PM |
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Zetec 2L black top sump chop - opinions on my attempt please.
Evening all,
I'm chopping the sump on a 2 litre black top Zetec. ie. the one with the two piece sump - alloy top part including windage tray and pressed steel
lower part.
There seems to be various opinions as to the best way to do this, including concerns over the baffling of the shortened sump in order to prevent oil
surge under heavy acceleration/braking and/or cornering.
So here's what I've done.........
1. Chopped the lower steel part of the sump and used the portion I've cut off to extend the sump lengthways, retaining the drain plug and plated
over the remaining hole - and yes I know the welding is not pretty but it's liquid tight! 
 
Sump Chop 1 Small
Partly because of concerns over baffling (and more importantly because I'm an idiot and forgot to modify the oil pick up pipe before I welded the
sump back together, and therefore couldn't see where the oil pick up pipe was gonna sit in relation to the bottom of the sump) I decided to cut a
hole in the bottom of the newly modded sump to level the pick up pipe properly. While I as at it I decided to try a further mod to overcome potential
oil surge problems.
 
Sump Chop 6 Small
I then modded the pick up pipe leaving it sticking slightly proud of the bottom of the sump.
 
Sump Chop 5 Small
 
Sump Chop 2 Small
Then I made a shallow 'mini sump' to encompass the pick up pipe.
 
Sump Chop 4 Small
The mini sump is 13mm deep and there is exactly 5mm clearance between the bottom of the pick up pipe and the bottom of the mini sump.
 
Sump Chop 3 Small
Given that the original steel (lower) part of the sump had no baffles in to start with (but bearing in mind I have made the sump shallower than the
original and increased the 'floor' area of the sump) do you think that these mods will be enough to prevent oil surge if I ensure that the
correct oil level is maintained or should I use more baffles?
And finally, I have lost about 1/2 litre of oil capacity. Will this be an issue or should I extend the sump further to regain this capacity.
So, opinions please - other than:-
1. Your welding is c__p, and
2. You're an idiot and should have modded the pick up pipe before you welded the sump back together!
Cheers,
Mart.
PS. All this should give me a whisker over 75mm/3" ground clearance.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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blakep82
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:05 PM |
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quite like the mini sump idea. wasn't really sure, but did you widen it at all? ie 'wings'? just to hold a bit more oil
edit: just saw the bit at the end, i'd weld some wings on the sides to get that 1/2 litre back. i guess you could make up 2 small steel boxes,
250ml each approx, drill some fairly decent size holes in the sides of the sump, and weld the boxes over them? one on each side?
someone will be along to tell me its a terrible idea probably
[Edited on 24/9/09 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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luke_stephenson
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:05 PM |
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do you think that you will be able to get sufficient oil to flow through the 5mm gap to prevent the pump cavitating and sucking air? just looks tight
to me, i dont know just a thought?
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stevebubs
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:07 PM |
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Interesting way of baffling - I just put a half mood piece of baffling infront of the pickup.
No problems so far.
Like an idiot, I didn't take a pic of the inside when I'd finished, but the final item looked like this externally:
 
Rescued attachment Sump 004.jpg
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stevebubs
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:07 PM |
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PS yes - I straightened out the slight warp...
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Cheffy
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:16 PM |
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Hi gents,
Blake - no, didn't widen it, just lengthened it. The lower sump held 2.75 litres of water originally and now holds around 2.25 litres.
Luke - I researched the required clearance before doing the mods. Common opinion seemed to be that the gap should be between 3-5mm so went for the
larger anyway. Will keep an eye on the oil level anyway and keep it well topped up. Air should never be able to enter the pick up pipe.
Steve - yea I'd probably have done similar if I hadn't had to cut a big hole to modify the pick up anyway! Doh! Just struck me as an idea
while the hole was there really. 
Cheers,
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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coozer
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:22 PM |
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The original sump doesn't have any baffles so why worry about it?
Heres mine, boxed over the shallow bit at the back..
Keeping the original shallow section, drilled some holes and what not..
And with the back boxed in it now holds more than original.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Cheffy
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
edit: just saw the bit at the end, i'd weld some wings on the sides to get that 1/2 litre back. i guess you could make up 2 small steel boxes,
250ml each approx, drill some fairly decent size holes in the sides of the sump, and weld the boxes over them? one on each side?
[Edited on 24/9/09 by blakep82]
Yea, quite like that idea. I'll investigate!
Cheers fella.
Steve, how did you staighten your warped sump out? I've got a bit of warping. It's not too bad - probably about 7/8mm over the length of
the sump (despite bolting it to a board during welding). It pulls out easy enough when you bolt it up to the upper part of the sump but would probably
be better if it was straight anyway.
Cheers,
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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marcjagman
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:33 PM |
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I can see a problem with your mini sump idea, sorry. When the gunk settles it will find it's way there and on start up will block your pick up
pipe.
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blakep82
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:34 PM |
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might have to shorten my vauxhall one at some point. will keep an eye on this one
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Cheffy
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:44 PM |
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Hi Coozer,
quote:
The original sump doesn't have any baffles so why worry about it?
Only because the original sump has quite a small footprint. ie - the lower (steel) part of the sump that holds the oil reservoir is quite narrow and
short but deepish. Therefore, there is little chance of oil surge during hard acceleration/braking or cornering.
Now that I have modified the sump it is shallower and longer than the original and I just want to make sure there's no chance of the pick up
pipe sucking up air.
Cheers,
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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Cheffy
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| posted on 24/9/09 at 10:48 PM |
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Hi,
quote:
Originally posted by marcjagman
I can see a problem with your mini sump idea, sorry. When the gunk settles it will find it's way there and on start up will block your pick up
pipe.
Yea, good point. Hopefully regular servicing and oil changes (including dropping the sump from time to time) will get round that.
Cheers,
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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02GF74
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| posted on 25/9/09 at 09:47 AM |
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my money is on the mini sumpo being knock off by the first speed bump you go over.
you have gained nomthing by that - betwee to have the whole sump lower so it acts as a skip place than the littlle lump.
also as ^^^ mentioned, grot will collect there and only way you can clear it is by removal of the sump at each oil change.
could you not remake the pick up tube - copper or steel pipe and a bit of bending or am I missing the point?
don't take it the wrong way but it does seem a bodge - you'd be better off getting another sump and doing a better job if you value your
engine.
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ashg
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| posted on 25/9/09 at 10:08 AM |
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i think you will have problems with the mini sump. i would just baffle the sump properly. or make a custom gated sump.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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stevebubs
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| posted on 25/9/09 at 10:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheffy
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
edit: just saw the bit at the end, i'd weld some wings on the sides to get that 1/2 litre back. i guess you could make up 2 small steel boxes,
250ml each approx, drill some fairly decent size holes in the sides of the sump, and weld the boxes over them? one on each side?
[Edited on 24/9/09 by blakep82]
Yea, quite like that idea. I'll investigate!
Cheers fella.
Steve, how did you staighten your warped sump out? I've got a bit of warping. It's not too bad - probably about 7/8mm over the length of
the sump (despite bolting it to a board during welding). It pulls out easy enough when you bolt it up to the upper part of the sump but would probably
be better if it was straight anyway.
Cheers,
Mart.
Bolted up to a thick piece of wood so flat and heated with blow torch
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Cheffy
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| posted on 25/9/09 at 11:43 AM |
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Hi,
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
don't take it the wrong way but it does seem a bodge - you'd be better off getting another sump and doing a better job if you value your
engine.
Ouch, I think there is only one way to take that!  I'm not generally in the habit of bodging things. The idea was not to bodge anything but in
fact to try and do something slightly different that's all. The 'mini sump' idea was a genuine attempt to address the oil surge
issue under hard accelarating and braking that has been mentioned in other threads on this site. I think maybe you misunderstood my original post. If
you look at the pictures you will see that I have modified the pick up pipe.
However, your points - as also mentioned by others - about crud collecting in it and the fact it sticks proud of the sump and is therefore likely to
get knocked off easily are very valid.
I'll do it again along the lines of Coozers in the pics above.
Thanks to all for the feedback and suggestions.
Cheers,
Martin.
[Edited on 25/9/09 by Cheffy]
[Edited on 25/9/09 by Cheffy]
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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paulf
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| posted on 26/9/09 at 11:07 AM |
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I just shortened mine by about 20mm and left it the standard outline, rather than adding bits on.I decided that although the capacity is reduced the
mileage it does between oil changes means the oil will last ok and the reduced area means less room for oil surge and zetecs like the oil to run hot
so that isn't a problem.
Ive ran it for about a year with no problems so far.
Paul
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Cheffy
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| posted on 28/9/09 at 08:37 AM |
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for that - good to know you've run it that way with no problems.
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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Numb nuts
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| posted on 29/9/09 at 06:57 PM |
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Add an oil cooler to the system...that will increase the oil capacity
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flak monkey
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| posted on 29/9/09 at 08:16 PM |
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Looks like it will work to me.
If you run on synthetic oil forget the sludging problem, especially if its serviced every 3000 miles or so.
Yes in 100000 miles you will have some probs, but for now it will be fine.
5mm clearance is fine to the pick up, my pinto ran 3mm IIRC and was never an issue with a high flow pump.
If the small well doesnt stick out below the chassis it will be OK, otherwise it is a bit vunerable.
David
PS anyone want to lend me a zetec bottom end so I can do a sump kit for the zetec?
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Cheffy
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| posted on 1/10/09 at 07:17 PM |
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Hi David,
Thanks for the reply.
I'll keep my eye open for any development on the Zetec sump kits - I may well be in the market for one!
You'd be welcome to borrow my bottom end but it's a bit of a trek from Norfolk to Oxford.
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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