Prasius
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:07 AM |
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Locost Newbie looking for a "superlight" track/fast road suitable chassis suggestions...
My previous track/road car was a Saxo VTR, and I currently own a '02 Impreza STI @ 340bhp and a.. err.. Smart Cabriolet (74bhp! whoop!)
As I'm struggling to think of where to go from the Impreza - I guessed a kitcar is the way to go for my performance requirements!
While I've looked around the wider kit car world a little and have identified a few kits I like - obviously it would be nice to get a new toy a
little cheaper so am investigating the Locost world.
Because this would be nothing more than a toy - no creature comforts are needed or wanted, I include little things like heaters and windscreens in
that!. I plan to be car engined - possibly Zetec or similar...
With that in mind, would someone kindly suggest a few chassis that are suitable for the kind of thing I have in mind to get me started?
Thanks for any help.
[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]
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Danozeman
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:12 AM |
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Do you want it road legal?
The 4 id go for would be in no particular order. Although if i built another id do an mnr because i love the look of them..
MNR vortex
MK indy
Mac#1
Westfield
If you want true locost then get the haynes roadster book and build the lot yourself. Or there are people on ebay selling haynes roadster chassis for
not too much money.
[Edited on 17/1/10 by Danozeman]
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:18 AM |
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biased opinion i know cause i've got one,but dont forget Raw Striker!they cleared up in quite afew race series last year!
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tomprescott
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:21 AM |
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The great thing about locosts is that you can make it the way you want it. I'd say the most important choice is your donor as most
chassis' have very similar steering/strength characteristics and pretty much every kit has been used for track bashing.
You'll find that due to the light weight of a seven type car you'll be out accelerating your impreza with a lot less horse power.
Depends what kind of track you want to do, if you just want to do RWYB days and similar then you can go wild, alternatively if you wanted to get into
racing you could build/buy a 750 car and get into some real racing!
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chris mason
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:30 AM |
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Don't want to spoil your asperations too much, but a zetec powered kitcar will be slower than your 340bhp sti.
If your new to kitcars then you'll probably be unaware of what a stock zetec 600kg car can do.
Your looking at:
0-60 ~ 6 seconds, your sti will under 5
0-100 ~ 16 seconds, your sti will be around 12
1/4 mile ~ 15's mid 14's at best, your sti 13's maybe even a high 12 with a good launch
So with the power your used too, on the road the zetec will be a bit of a let down, on track it could be different, but that will depend on driver
ability.
It may be better through the twisties, but it's not often you can go balls out on the road.
Best bet would be rip the engine out of the smart and fit a busa engine, that way you'll have the best of both worlds 
[Edited on 17/1/10 by chris mason]
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iank
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:32 AM |
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If you're serious about the track then I'd be more careful about the care taken in getting the geometry spot on and having an MSA legal
full cage than saving a few kilos (the chassis is only about 10% of the weight of a racer and less for a road car).
I'd go and talk to procomp personally with your brief.
http://www.procomp.co.uk or u2u procomp.
[Edited on 17/1/10 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:41 AM |
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to be fair tho mine's only 240bhp at the wheels and just leaves my mates fq360 behind up untill it starts getting scary in 3 figures,and cost
less than half.but then you can only use a 7 style car less than a quarter of the time you can an evo or scoob in our climate.be aware,realistically
you'll get very little enjoyable use from one no matter how hardcore you think you are!
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Prasius
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:42 AM |
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Yes, I'd want it road legal, I'm not fussed at all about road comfort though, just the absolute minimum to get it through SVA.
I have no faith in my fabrication skills to assemble the actual chassis myself! I think I can weld a spanner well enough to put one together without
too much help though.
Thanks for your very honest opinions about things though. I do want something quite a bit rawer than the Impreza now, and for my
"sensible" car replacement to be a bit more sensible than the Smart. Part of the attraction is that I have the impression that these
things are pretty easy to upgrade if I feel the need - and something like the Zetec appeared to have quite a lot of tuning options available. I will
hold my hands up and admit that my knowledge is mainly based in Japanese car engines; the only obvious contender I can think of from there would be
the SR20DET from the 200SX; but Jap engines don't seem to be that popular on first glance?
Ref the 'busa engine in the Smart - if I was going to do anything to the Smart it would have to be a 13b rotary which from rough guestimentation
should actually fit pretty well - but that would be nothing more than a novelty car because it would be terrifying to drive!
[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]
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contaminated
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 11:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
Don't want to spoil your asperations too much, but a zetec powered kitcar will be slower than your 340bhp sti.
If your new to kitcars then you'll probably be unaware of what a stock zetec 600kg car can do.
Your looking at:
0-60 ~ 6 seconds, your sti will under 5
0-100 ~ 16 seconds, your sti will be around 12
1/4 mile ~ 15's mid 14's at best, your sti 13's maybe even a high 12 with a good launch
So with the power your used too, on the road the zetec will be a bit of a let down, on track it could be different, but that will depend on driver
ability.
It may be better through the twisties, but it's not often you can go balls out on the road.
Best bet would be rip the engine out of the smart and fit a busa engine, that way you'll have the best of both worlds
[Edited on 17/1/10 by chris mason]
I don't agree. I think the average zetec 7 will be quicker than that. None are truly standard by nature of the exhaust, and most have at least a
decent set of carbs and an aftermarket ECU.
Additionally I don't think it's just about the speed - it's a totally different ride from an STI. I don't see how you can
compare the two really - you pay your money and take your choice. I'd love a scooby, but I wouldn't have one to drive as an event at the
weekend like I do the Tiger.
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bodger
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:09 PM |
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Have you thought about the mid engined bec's that are about now, the MK Midi maybe?
Linky
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by contaminated
quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
Don't want to spoil your asperations too much, but a zetec powered kitcar will be slower than your 340bhp sti.
If your new to kitcars then you'll probably be unaware of what a stock zetec 600kg car can do.
Your looking at:
0-60 ~ 6 seconds, your sti will under 5
0-100 ~ 16 seconds, your sti will be around 12
1/4 mile ~ 15's mid 14's at best, your sti 13's maybe even a high 12 with a good launch
So with the power your used too, on the road the zetec will be a bit of a let down, on track it could be different, but that will depend on driver
ability.
It may be better through the twisties, but it's not often you can go balls out on the road.
Best bet would be rip the engine out of the smart and fit a busa engine, that way you'll have the best of both worlds
[Edited on 17/1/10 by chris mason]
I don't agree. I think the average zetec 7 will be quicker than that. None are truly standard by nature of the exhaust, and most have at least a
decent set of carbs and an aftermarket ECU.
Additionally I don't think it's just about the speed - it's a totally different ride from an STI. I don't see how you can
compare the two really - you pay your money and take your choice. I'd love a scooby, but I wouldn't have one to drive as an event at the
weekend like I do the Tiger.
I agree with Contaminated. The feel of a small convertible kit, is completely different to a tintop or saloon.
With the lighter kerb weight, long wheel base, rear wheel drive and few inches off the deck, its a completely different animal.
Even my kit, which is a T-Top with space frame and mid engine, is completely different to drive than anything else ive driven. Not to say its
quicker, but its a novelty to drive. - Even more so when i get the turbo finished.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:14 PM |
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if i were you i'd get out to afew shows this year and talk to the manufacturers,make up your own mind,ask them realistically how much
work,skills are required.there aren't any cheap kits you can just bolt together out there!depending on what your confident to take on maybe a
good 2nd hand car with a naff engine and engine swap,add your own style to it might be a cheaper,easier or quicker route.all depends how much you want
to stand back and say 'proudly i built that' i guess
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Prasius
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:19 PM |
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Well I was looking at SDR Motorsports V-Storm WR3 yesterday at Autosport which started off as a BEC, and would potentially allow me to use the engine
out of my Impreza as it is. However, there is quite a big (comparatively) price premium there.
I'd like something a bit more torque-y than I'd imagine a BEC to be. I have the impression they might be like an S2000 which is a driving
experience I'm not particularly fond of!
While it's a way off, Newark is only just down the road so I think I'll pop along later in the year.
[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]
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dlatch
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:22 PM |
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I think a mid engine kit may be the way forward quite a few coming onto the market these days.
not sure on chris's estimate on performance of a zetec as most would have throttle bodies or twin webers.
i remember running my tin top at santapod (e30 bmw) which was 170bhp and weighed around 1000kg (was stripped out) and the best run i done was mid
14's i would expect a 600kg kit with similar power to be in the 13's poss high 12's with right tyres.
i remember a guy running a robin hood with a tuned pinto and he run 13's all day
[Edited on 17/1/10 by dlatch]
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hicost blade
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:31 PM |
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I was having this conversation with Ivan from Pro comp the other day, we think a 2nd hand Westfield is the best way to go, you can set them up to go
really well AND it will be worth something if you decide to sell. I think the Puma 1.7 zetec is a good cheap well-supported engine (although mine is a
919 blade)
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hicost blade
I was having this conversation with Ivan from Pro comp the other day, we think a 2nd hand Westfield is the best way to go, you can set them up to go
really well AND it will be worth something if you decide to sell. I think the Puma 1.7 zetec is a good cheap well-supported engine (although mine is a
919 blade)
Beware the Puma Engine - its components are not compatible or interchangeable with the 1.6, 1.8 or 2.0L (from memory). You might be looking at
increased costs or fewer spares by limiting yourself to the 1.7.
The 1.8 and 2.0L are most common, and parts are numerous, readily available and cheaper.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Miks15
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:50 PM |
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you say newark is just down the road? Where abouts are you from?
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contaminated
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:54 PM |
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I agree with that as a tentative way in. You won't lose money on a westy. Funny really, the first 7 I ever went in was my sister's westy.
It had a 1600 cvh lump and to me it felt like the fastest car in the world. That's my point really - I think if you jump out of almost any tin
top it'll feel like that.
quote:
Originally posted by hicost blade
I was having this conversation with Ivan from Pro comp the other day, we think a 2nd hand Westfield is the best way to go, you can set them up to go
really well AND it will be worth something if you decide to sell. I think the Puma 1.7 zetec is a good cheap well-supported engine (although mine is a
919 blade)
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eddie99
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 12:56 PM |
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Just to add in to the zetec conversation... I have a puma and the engine is excellent. 100% recommendation and even though it might not be as
interchangeable as the standard zetec's. I've gone down standard 1.8 zetec route but if i could change i probably would....
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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leepo
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 01:06 PM |
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Hi check out the new one from Road Runner Racing its the dogs bol--------s
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franky
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 01:19 PM |
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I don't think an sti would do a 12 sec 1/4mile either, mid to high 13's.
There's plenty of choice around, i've just been through the same process and decided on a GKD Legend 6, the chassis won which kit car of
the year/best handling etc when fitted to the evolution and this is a further improved example.
I'm using a m3 engine and bmw running gear, another reason I went for the GKD as ford stuff is getting thin on the ground and you can't
beat 15 years of development can you?
if your building from a kit I think customer support is worth its weight in gold, so look/ask around and you'll get a realistic feel for how
companies look after you after you've gave them your cash.
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 01:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
the chassis won which kit car of the year/best handling etc when fitted to the evolution and this is a further improved example.
I don't wish to start an argument AT ALL, but what was it up against in the best handling tests, and how was it judged?
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Prasius
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 01:52 PM |
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I think I'd go for the 2l Zetec simply because it gives me more room for tuning/modification in the future.
I'm near Lincoln.
I won't go into what the STI can and can't do - it's a great car; but I feel a need to somehow progress. As I really should get a
sensibly sized car for my normal needs, that means that my toy car is going to have to become the small one.
[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]
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hicost blade
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 02:22 PM |
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http://media.turbosport.co.uk/2007/9/2007091420346156617199.gif
1700cc of pure aluminium vvt power, this is the way i should have gone.
A narrow se westie can be had for £4500 and you could sell the inevitable crossflow to buy the bellhousing to convert the type 9 to fit the zetec se.
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hicost blade
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| posted on 17/1/10 at 02:39 PM |
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I don't wish to start an argument AT ALL, but what was it up against in the best handling tests, and how was it judged?
It depends on who/how it's setup and how well the chassis sets up. Some well known (well respected by the press for some reason) chassis'
twist and flex or suspension doesn't work/fit properly (I'm not saying any names)
there are plenty of very effective narrow live westies being used in motorsport.
If you add up the cost of other so called cheap 7's they are pretty close if not more than a Westfield, then look at the 2nd hand prices of the
others (the realistic ones anyway)
hope I've lit the touch paper.........:-)
[Edited on 17/1/10 by hicost blade]
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