robocog
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| posted on 16/4/10 at 10:11 PM |
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concrete sectional garage...moving one
After years of filling the spare bedroom, kitchen, dining room ....ok if I'm being honest... everywhere, with my car/motorbike/tools related
crap I decided its time to rid the house of my oily clutter and put up a decent sized garage/shed in the back garden...where the chances of me finding
the bit I'm after is much higher if I know what room it belongs in
I put out an advert on Freecycle for a concrete sectional garage...and I have found someone just round the corner with one that I can have for free if
I take it down myself..it measures 5m by 2.5m 2.4m high roughly
I went with Mrs Cog to have a look and have got the go ahead for the plan
Now there is access down a narrow alley way to our back garden (not big enough for a car though unfortunately so Sweetpea II will still have to live
on the driveway outdoors) but I think even the biggest chunk of the garage should fit through , so I wont have to pass it through the house
The back garden is grassed ...so I will have to lay a concrete slab for it to sit on after cutting the turf, moving several bushes/plants, a rotten
old wooden shed and I guess ditching lots of soil in prep for laying a slab of concrete
How deep do I need to dig down?
I can borrow a whacker plate and would use some rubble and probably some mesh
I laid the driveway using pav2 with some mesh underneath which has lasted the last 4 years well enough with heavy traffic...so I guess use the same
techniqe, but maybe not the same concrete "mix" or whatever the term is?
The slab I would not be able to mix and pour myself so will look into whether its possible to have it pumped down a pipe into the back garden possibly
30 meters from the front! and no way am I mixing it myself and would rather not have the mess of using wheelbarrows if theres a large quantity
required
The garage's bolts all looked pretty rusty, so I guess its going to be a case of using an angle grinder to remove them (the kind lady needs it
gone with the minimum ammount of fuss and mess) so am open to any other quick method
Also open to any other pointers in dismantling and moving and re assembly of this beast
I can borrow a van, but I guess its going to be a few trips as they are supposedly pretty heavy "chunks"
The base of the uprights /seemed/ to be standing on a layer of squidgy rubber...would this be like silicone for a barrier against water?
Can they realistically be put up by a couple of people? (or do I need a team?)
It looked like it may be possible to move which wall the side door was located (with it being sectional)...I really hope so otherwise its just not
going to work...LOL
Roof is a corregated cast substance...should I be ditching it without breaking it up and putting something else on there?...like wood with shed
roofing felt?
Not seen any footage or instructions for one being assembled, so am starting to worry about the order they go up in and whether I have the
technology
Hints, tips and words of ecouragement are required...
Regards
Rob
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iDENTITi
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| posted on 16/4/10 at 10:45 PM |
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sounds similar to my garage, the posts go up and then the sections just fit to them. If I'm right I guess.
Those sections are f-ing heavy reinforced concrete though. And the "rubber gunk" is builders mastic. never tried to remove it though.
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Puzzled
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| posted on 16/4/10 at 10:49 PM |
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For what its worth - - - I"m not saying its impossible, but you have SOME job on your hands!!!!
Firstly, the base.-- Dig down one foot, infill 6 incnes of well compacted hardcore. Top out with 1nch of sand.Spread heavy duty polythene over and
put 2inch insulation over. Pour concrete 6 inches o/a.You will need to put formwork around extremities to retain concrete.Allow an extra six inches
o/a sides ,front and back.
Now that you"ve done a good job on the base ---- DUMP the sectional "GIFT" AND BUILD YOURSELF A PROPER GARAGE!!!.
Reason why I say this as follows---
Roof ---- impossible to dismantle without breaking it.
R.C .Panels --- Over time they become very brittle and are difficult to take down and transport without damaging them.
The fixing bolts rust into the concrete and are a bugger to take out cleanly.
Once you damage one then it makes the job SO much harder.
Sorry I cant give you much encouragment but I tend to call it as I see it and I"ve many years experience in construction
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YQUSTA
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| posted on 16/4/10 at 11:28 PM |
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I took one of these down that was 20ft x 10ft and all I can say is good luck.
I would find any other solution to your problem than busting you balls with 1 of these constructions.
Very heavy sections as said. Mine leaked everywhere from the joints so I would think about getting a shed if I were you. I put up an 8ft x 12ft
security shed in it's place.
Have you also checked that the roof isn't asbestos?
Edit: Team it took 3 of us to take mine down so I would say to be safe at least 3 but 4 would be better
[Edited on 16/4/10 by YQUSTA]
"If in doubt flat out"
Colin McRae
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indykid
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| posted on 16/4/10 at 11:43 PM |
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i spent wednesday dropping a 12'x20' and have done 3 in the past.
it's possible but it's hard work. the panels probably weigh in the region of 100-120kg each. don't try to carry them any distance. i
actually spent yesterday welding up a dolly to shift them on since this one is landlocked and has to be moved through a ginnel to get it out to the
road.
a van is a pretty bad idea. it'll need a lot of trips! we have access to a builders merchant's delivery truck with hiab. all the panels go
onto 4 pallets and get lifted onto the back, as does the woodwork/door
if it's got a pitched roof, it's a bit easier to manipulate for side doors etc. than one with a sloping roof since all the panels are the
same height. if it's a sloping roof, the panels all fit together in a set order and the bolt holes don't line up if out of order. the
panels are made of f***ing hard concrete so you need good quality drill bits to drill them.
the roof's probably not asbestos, but if it all stays in one piece, it won't do you any more harm than it just being sat there.
slitting disc in a grinder is a dead easy way to dispense with any stuck bolts. a 14mm rathcet ring spanner works well for driving the 1/2"
square nuts though.
if you're putting remesh in it, the floor probably only needs to be 3" thick, but make the edges about 6" to keep the panels
secure.
the indy lives in a sectional concrete garage i got from wadders off here, no less. it's perfectly dry and very solid.
tom
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franky
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 04:09 AM |
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As above its not too bad but the base needs to be strong around the edges as that's where all the weight sits, put a good 4mm mesh in the base
around the edge to stop it cracking.
There's a lot to be said for decent sectional garages as they're stronger and safer than brick built ones as its just reinforced concrete.
If its a decent one it'll go back together ok and shouldn't leak at all.
Problems come if its a nasty one! is it a pitched roof? If so i'd use cement roofing sheets, these last about 15-20 years and are strong and
help keep some heat in.
Getting it all down to your garden though is going to be a mission, call in all of your favours at once here as many hands make light work.
Good luck
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owelly
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 05:39 AM |
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Pah! You guys have it lucky. I'd have to spend around £1k just to get planning permission to build the slab!!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 06:19 AM |
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I removed a small shed of this construction from my old house. I'd never do that again if I had the choice. Very very heavy, all the bolts were
rusted and the screws that held the roof on where rusted in too.
Roof I later found out did have asbestos in it, cement mixed with asbestos. I'm just glad I had a mask on and was out in the open above it when
breaking the roof (no other way the get to the screws holding it on!!!)
Run a mile, wooden shed or build your own with blocks. If it's a under a certain size and the house isn't already extended up to
it's limit you can build a large concrete block shed without permission.
Ben
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 07:14 AM |
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I agree with the majority I'm afraid. They are heavier than a heavy thing and a bugger to shift!
Go with Concrete construction, relatively easy to do with patience even if you've never layed them before (but don't try mixing the mortar
by hand to save cash - don't ask me how I know!!!).
You'll be glad you didn't go with the concrete panels unless you want grief  .
Sorry to be so negative
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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fesycresy
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 07:29 AM |
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Sorry to disagree, but I built one on my own. They are not that heavy to me, it depends how strong you are!
I swapped a compressor for a sectional garage, I knocked down some outbuildings and shuttered up the edges. My base is 2'6" thick, to
raise it to my drive level 
Ensure the lower level is square (corner to corner measurements the same) and build up.
Make sure the base is level otherwise it'll look sh1t. Mine does leak some water at the base, and I can't stop it, that's a work in
progress problem. I wish I knew a bit more about DPC's before I started.
If I were not planning on moving house, I would batten the outside and cover in nicely stained shiplap. Very rustic, nice hanging baskets etc etc.
I'd also cut a couple of windows in (miss-measures from local window company).
Think about it, where else would you get a free garage, go for it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 07:31 AM |
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I wouldn't touch it.
The only way you can know that the roof material is not asbestos is by having it tested. This will cost several hundred pounds.
If you disturb a roof covering which on balance is highly likely to contain asbestos without knowing, you really are exposing yourself to significant
risks.
You might not actually cause yourself to contract mesothelioma or you may not cause anyone else to contract it, you won't know.
Howver, if you should be caught removing asbestos without following the procedures (I think the Control of Asbestos 2006, but don't quote me)
and if the HSE should get wind that you are doing or have done it, you shouldn't ever be in any doubt.
They WILL toast you.
For me, the best thing to do with Asbestos is to leave well alone, that's why concrete garages are free to uplift.
They're a nightmare to move and you're getting rid of someone else's asbestos problem for them.
Personally, I would be pouring a slab and building a new garage on it for a little extra money and a lot less heartache.
[Edited on 17/4/10 by zilspeed]
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 07:47 AM |
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I've done 2 - starnge thing is the higher up the wall the panels go , the heavier they are
Last one I did , I used my engine crane with a bit of 50 x 50 box steel as an extension to lift the top panels in place .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Peteff
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 07:56 AM |
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I helped my brother in law to move one and luckily he lived next door to a coal delivery man who lent us his lorry. It was bolted together and we
broke every bolt which was easier than undoing them, they were replaced with threaded bar and nuts when rebuilt. It was a big job at both ends.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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robocog
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 09:10 AM |
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I love this forum :-)
Ok to answer a couple of the Q's
It has a gable roof, made from corragted stuff
There were a few gaps in it as I could see sunlight from inside, so this may get ditched during transportation
It has got 2 opening windows in it already (and it may have had another set on the opposite wall to the barn doors, but were boarded up from what I
could tell) so was nice and light inside
I'm sure the lady said it was put up just before she moved in 5 years ago...which suggests that the roof pannels should not have a high asbestos
content and hopefully the bolts have only got surface rust rather than deep sieze
from memory it looked like there were corner pieces with metal plates that bolt up and grip the sectional sides, with 2 or 3 pillars along each side
as well doing the same
Roof joists are welded and bolted angle iron
I may try and get round again today to squirt some penetrating fluid on the bolts..
I took a camera with me but didn't take any photo's like an idiot
If I get round again I'll try and get some photo's
I've taken on board what you guys have said/suggested
Free garage=massive job and hard work so not really free and may be leaky or not go back together properly and risk of death etc
I guess I'm comitted to dismantling it and trying to get it back home without damaging it and take it from there...if a critical part breaks
during dismantling/moving then I guess I'll still be making a hard standing and be forced into a quick decision as the contents of the rotten
shed will be also cluttering the house and the garden will be turf cut and rolled up in prep
I have a "bricky" tool and have watched the video (impulse buy) and he makes it look pretty simple...almost foolproof, but I know deep
down I'll find a way of screwing it up
so if all else fails I'll put in a Freecycle wanted ad for breezeblocks...LOL
I would have thought it would not be classed as a temporary structure though if it were breezeblock or brick rather than something sectional?
Don't want to go the planning/building regs route if poss
In the words of TG
How hard can it be?
Regards
Rob
[Edited on 17/4/10 by robocog]
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thunderace
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 11:08 AM |
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i have done some b4 it was easy just get some mates you need around 10 and it makes it very easy to build ,i was told it would take all day we had it
up in no time .i numbered evrything with spray paint and took some pics with my phone.
diging out for the slab was the hard job.
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iDENTITi
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 12:03 PM |
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Sounds exactly like the garage we had built, and the same age too. Roof is concrete fibre on ours. If you manage to move it you'll probably do
a better job than the "professionals" that put ours up...
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02GF74
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 12:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by robocog
Roof is a corregated cast substance...should I be ditching it without breaking it up and putting something else on there?...like wood with shed
roofing felt?
post photo - could be asbestos - I had this type of roof - cost £ 600 to dispose of - about 8 yrs ago - probs why she is offering it free.
re: bolts - if rusted then bust them off - either grinder or air wrench .
don't be put off - work out how much you have to pay for the same garage which you would have to put up yourself too - the additional work is
dismantling and transportation.
and it is environmentally friendly too.
take lots of photos of the garage and even number the pieces using chalk - may help reassembling the jigsaw
[Edited on 17/4/10 by 02GF74]
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JoelP
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 02:02 PM |
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you can bag up asbestos yourself with the right PPE, then call your local council to find which tip will accept it. Costs nowt but time, plastic, and
a few years of life
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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Peteff
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 03:43 PM |
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Our tip will take it double bagged in yellow bags but you can only take 2 bags at a time, so spread it among friends or go in and out a lot 
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 04:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
you can bag up asbestos yourself with the right PPE, then call your local council to find which tip will accept it. Costs nowt but time, plastic, and
a few years of life
Indeed you can, provided you follow the correct procedure for the specific material and the location, amount, and removal method.
The bagging is only part of it.
Here's some light bedtime reading.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 17/4/10 at 05:50 PM |
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Dont mess with asbestos, not worth it.
I did Asbestos training at work. Showed a video with 10+ people all talking about how they got cancer from asbestos.
Lady teacher got it from putting pins in a class room wall that must of had asbestos in the plaster......
At the end the video said that all the people in this video are died now.
Leave well alone.... the professionals are there for a reason.
[Edited on 17/4/10 by Ben_Copeland]
Ben
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Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
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robocog
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| posted on 19/4/10 at 08:20 PM |
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Pictures of garage now uploaded to my website
http://www.robocog.dyndns.org/garage/page_01.htm
It looks pretty big now its empty!
have sprayed some penetrating stuff on the nuts to try and make taking them out a little easier (the ones that wont just snap anyway)
Going to try using the windy gun to see if it helps get em snapped off or moving
A couple of the panels have been replaced by wood and the roof is not in as bad a condition as I had first thought
(but I bet it wont undo without breaking into shards!)
Regards
Rob
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dave r
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| posted on 20/4/10 at 05:52 AM |
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assuming the roof is held on with bolts that hook over the edge of the angle iron, and do up fromthe top, dont bother trying to undo.... angle grinder
every time
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robocog
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| posted on 26/4/10 at 10:08 PM |
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First part done and dusted
8 hours to take down and stack neatly
it wasn't a race and plenty of banter/fagbreaks/brew breaks and even got some current buns thrown in at half time
Some of that time was spent helping the lady put a fence back up in its place and tidy up
Followed advice ref the roof j bolts, just sliced them off from the inside using a 1mm disk
On the rest of the structure I managed to get ALL bolts out cleanly... bar 1 that snapped (and it was almost the last bolt..couldn't believe my
luck)
...this was done on Saturday so had perfect weather to boot
Tonight was part 2...and possibly th emost tiring
Just taken the best part of 2 1/2 hours to move it and shift it into the back garden
(Long wheelbase Fiat Ducato...took 4 journeys in the end...could have done it in less..maybe... but didn't want to break the van or push my
luck)
Its all sat there taking up the back garden now and awaiting a base to put it on and a couple of steady build days
(apart from a dozen of the smaller sections that we ran out of steam to ferry to the back garden so just got stacked on the driveway for now)
Looking forward to getting it up and gaining loads of free space :-)
Most of the bits are a 2 man carry, some are managable single handed
I will deffo need 2 extra pairs of steadying hands when its time to put it back up
Regards
Rob
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iank
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| posted on 26/4/10 at 11:04 PM |
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Bet you'll ache in the morning.
Well done on getting it down and moved uneventfully.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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