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Author: Subject: Yamaha R1.. clutch snatch, high revs and more..
FFTS

posted on 26/4/10 at 06:22 PM Reply With Quote
Yamaha R1.. clutch snatch, high revs and more..

OK so Ive been driving an zx9r bec for a while and it was my first Bec. Took me about an hour to get the basics, revs, slipping clutch to set off etc and now it all comes much more natural.

Now Ive just taken possession of an R1 Vortex.

It has a 2002 injected engine, power commander III usb, cush drive prop and it seems that the first gear basket has been changed from Barnett and even stronger springs than the normal barnett upgrades, Quaife reverse box. 3.38 lsd.

Here are the problems I'm trying to get used to but not sure that practice will get it that driver friendly for the roads. It was built and has always been a road car.

1) Turn on ignition and it revs up to around 5000rpm for about 5 seconds and then drops right down and struggles to idle a bit or even cuts out and needs restarting.

2) Touch the accelerator and it revs high and instant.

3) The clutch is ON/OFF with no slip and combined with the sensitive gas pedal this either gives a violent stall or a wheel spin.

4) when going slow ( 5 - 15 mph)even in low gear it starts to judder and can hear the diff knocking but it kind of picks up momentum causing more knock and more judder then a rocking foot on the gas pedal adds to it until giving more power.

Whats normal for this setup.? What will improve these systems? My Ninja Bec never did any of this.

Under power and at speed she seems great but setting off and low speed has made the first day a challenge (now trying to practice and dont want to get in traffic



[Edited on 26/4/10 by FFTS]





Chris.

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MakeEverything

posted on 26/4/10 at 06:35 PM Reply With Quote
As a bike rider;

When you start the engine, i would expect to see the revs climb, then drop to idle. You should be able to adjust the low idle speed with a thumb screw on the TB's somewhere?

The clutch sounds like either youre not quite used to the sensitivity of it, or the springs are too strong for your driving style. The slightest movement on the clutch pedal (once the slack is taken up) will engage or disengage the clutch.

The R1 engine is a bit of a beast, and again, the slightest touch of the throttle will rev it up. 5k RPM isnt high considering the red line and rev limiter.





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adithorp

posted on 26/4/10 at 06:42 PM Reply With Quote
1. What does it idle at once warmed up? This could be just a symptom of the idle being set to low. Think from memory it should be about 1200rpm.
2+3. Both sound like poorly chosen pedal ratios. My clutch improved emmensly when I altered the ratio of the pedal.
4. Mine does that sometimes. When I find a cure I'll let you know.

adrian





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FFTS

posted on 26/4/10 at 06:45 PM Reply With Quote
On the ZX9R I can rev it up to about 3.5k rpm and slip the clutch no problem to get a smooth slow take off when required (traffic jams and stuff)

I need to find out more what he upgraded on the clutch but he did say the first basket had been changed to another different one.





Chris.

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FFTS

posted on 26/4/10 at 06:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
1. What does it idle at once warmed up? This could be just a symptom of the idle being set to low. Think from memory it should be about 1200rpm.
2+3. Both sound like poorly chosen pedal ratios. My clutch improved emmensly when I altered the ratio of the pedal.
4. Mine does that sometimes. When I find a cure I'll let you know.

adrian


I'll check the idle tomorrow but think its around 1k.

Never heard of pedal ratios so please enlighten me how to adjust them?

4) Does the cush drive make this worse? I know its supposed to soften the take up on the diff but when it judders could it be flexing both ways momentarily?

Any experienced R1 Bec owners want to stop by and give an opinion then the Coffee will be on

Hint hint

Oh yep.. the power commander was mapped 2005 by Holeshot racing but dont know what map or whats changed since the if anything.

[Edited on 26/4/10 by FFTS]





Chris.

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Steve Hignett

posted on 26/4/10 at 07:15 PM Reply With Quote
Changing the pedal ratio:

Take the clutch pedal off, drill a new hole closer to the pivot (say half the distance it is now) and put it back on, obviously fitting the cable clevis etc to the new hole.

This means that for (lets say) 6" of foot travel the cable might only move 1/4" instead of 1/2" etc...






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adithorp

posted on 26/4/10 at 07:16 PM Reply With Quote
Pedal ratio; The ratio of the distnce the pedal and cable pull are from the pivot.
By altering where on the pedal the cables attach you alter how far the cable is pulled. By moving the cable towards the pivot the clutch (or throttle) gets less sensitive. This does mean you get less overall cable pull. Of course this requires you to also move the outer cable anchor point.

Yes, I think the TRT prop is at the heart of the transmission chatter.

adrian





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JonnyS

posted on 26/4/10 at 07:17 PM Reply With Quote
I've got a 2001 R1 on carbs. I don't have any of the issues you mention, but an oil change might help the clutch issue? Mine feels much nicer since.
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FFTS

posted on 26/4/10 at 07:29 PM Reply With Quote
oil is brand new in.

Thanks on the pedal ratios, that makes sense. Would that be just for the clutch or the gas pedal too?

[Edited on 26/4/10 by FFTS]





Chris.

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adithorp

posted on 26/4/10 at 07:41 PM Reply With Quote
Applies to both. Just don't go too far. The payback for less sensitivity is greater pedal travel.

adrian





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mark chandler

posted on 26/4/10 at 08:05 PM Reply With Quote
Lots of snatching causes huge clonks from the rear end.. so:

Manifold leak
or just badly set up

My fireblade engined car was horrible, careful balance and tweak of fuel and it was a different car.

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Wheels244

posted on 26/4/10 at 08:52 PM Reply With Quote
FTTS

I've got EXACTLY the same set up as you.

It shouldn't rev to 5000 on start up - mine doesn't. Have you got a sticking pedal, weak return spring for the throttle ?

When I put the Barnett conversion on mine I used the race ( black ) springs - this gives much more feel and no slip although it could still be classed as a on and off action compared with a normal car.

The juddering at low speed sometimes happens I put this down to a flighty R1 bike engine trying to pull a lot heavier car. A bit of slip from the clutchand a bit more right foot gets rid of it immediately.

Idle speed is around 1000rpm.

If it's got the MNR pedal set up you shouldn't need to mess about with ratios.

You're more than welcome to come over and do a side by side comparison - it would be a good excuse for a blast.

HTHs

Rob:

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bassett

posted on 26/4/10 at 09:37 PM Reply With Quote
on the above post im not entirely sold on the pedal ratios but usually this is adjustable and there are probably a few different varieties that were fitted. Mine revs upto about 2500rpm and settles around 1300 as it felt more balanced on my engine at this point but this may also be because its never been professionally mapped. Your high rev issue soulds like either the throttle cables to taught so id slacken that off and then once its warm adjust the idle to suit.





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FFTS

posted on 26/4/10 at 10:12 PM Reply With Quote
I should have made it clearer that the high revs happens when the key is turned without any foot on the throttle at all (not even in the car) You turn the key and Brrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm 5000rpm for around 5 seconds and then drops on it own!





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welderman

posted on 26/4/10 at 10:49 PM Reply With Quote
bring it in tomorrow and we will pull it to bits, adithop is coming over to look at his roll bar tomorrow to

Joe





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FFTS

posted on 27/4/10 at 06:01 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by welderman
bring it in tomorrow and we will pull it to bits, adithop is coming over to look at his roll bar tomorrow to

Joe


DONE!! let me know what time he'll be over as it would be nice to meet him too. The journey is normally 15 mins but give me about an hour to stall my way there at every set of lights and roundabouts hahahaha.





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Major Stare

posted on 27/4/10 at 06:50 AM Reply With Quote
Let us all know how you get on.

My 5PW R1 has a Barnett clutch, heavy duty springs and drives lovely. Fitted a long bolt in the bulkhead behind the clutch pedal to limit throw/movement. It now drives spot on and the clutch feels just like Vectra rep mobile





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welderman

posted on 27/4/10 at 07:10 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
quote:
Originally posted by welderman
bring it in tomorrow and we will pull it to bits, adithop is coming over to look at his roll bar tomorrow to

Joe


DONE!! let me know what time he'll be over as it would be nice to meet him too. The journey is normally 15 mins but give me about an hour to stall my way there at every set of lights and roundabouts hahahaha.



any time will do





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Davey D

posted on 27/4/10 at 12:07 PM Reply With Quote
on my 2006 R1 i made the clutch lever on the engine end longer by cutting it in half, then welding a bit of flatbar in the middle to match.

it is now much easier to slip the clutch

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adithorp

posted on 27/4/10 at 07:44 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS

DONE!! let me know what time he'll be over as it would be nice to meet him too. The journey is normally 15 mins but give me about an hour to stall my way there at every set of lights and roundabouts hahahaha.


I'll be there about 2pm (if thats OK, Joe)

adrian





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welderman

posted on 27/4/10 at 08:31 PM Reply With Quote
ye tomorrow, lol.





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adithorp

posted on 27/4/10 at 09:20 PM Reply With Quote
Doh!!!

Guess I should check the date/time stamps on the posts.

adrian





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