MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 07:35 AM |
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Springs rattle on full droop
Just fitted new dampers and springs to rear of car, now if i set the ride height at the desired level (98mm), when the car is in full droop the
springs rattle about, i.e. no compression. I'm guessing the only way around this is to have some graduated springs (not ideal as more expensive
and i've only just brand new ones anyway), or maybe some weak helper springs?? How much will springs settle by, as if this happens i maybe able
to get the desired ride height without helper springs and get the springs tight. Ideas?
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 07:38 AM |
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Me being a tight-a5@e would change the ride height 
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 07:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
Me being a tight-a5@e would change the ride height
LOL! Just looked, helper springs are £13 each @ merlin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i only paid £46 for the pair of proper springs!! And the spacers to hold them
in place, another £13!!!!!!!
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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philw
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 07:44 AM |
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Why don't you wind the spring platforms up to take out the slack? won't alter the ride height that much surely, whats the length of the
shocks/springs
[Edited on [1273045614R0=073131p: by philw]
Must try harder
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 08:02 AM |
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With a tiny amount of compression, the ride height is 110mm, which gives far too much rake (front set at 80mm as min ride height in RGB is 75mm). I
dropped it 5mm before my last race at the rear (before spring and damper change) and it made a positive difference in the handling at the rear.
Shock are 12.5" open, springs are 7", longer springs won't help as its he amount the springs compress under static load
[Edited on 5/5/10 by MK9R]
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 08:13 AM |
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Shorter springs/make new pick up points/softer springs same length so you can preload ?
edited for speeling
[Edited on 5/5/10 by Jon Ison]
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TimC
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 09:24 AM |
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What about machining inserts or thicker platforms - how much do you think you need?
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 09:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TimC
What about machining inserts or thicker platforms - how much do you think you need?
that won't work as it will raise the ride height, there needs to be more compression of the spring at the required ride height to allow some
compression at droop. Its gonna have to be weak helper springs i think
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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carpmart
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 09:37 AM |
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Helper springs are for just this problem. It's your only solution!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 09:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tomgregory2000
the only real answer is to get shorter dampers
nope, that still doesn't affect ride height, anyway, i can't go shorter as will not have enough travel
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 09:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
Helper springs are for just this problem. It's your only solution!
Any suggestions on suppliers that aren't horrifically priced for a bit of wound flat steel??
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 10:19 AM |
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Mike, just my humble opinion but don't go for helper springs, your going to end up with two different spring rates and also introduce some roll
during hard cornering, your racing it yea ?
Shorter springs, move the mounts (are the rear shocks upright or angled ?) or go for slightly softer springs that you can pre load, slightly softer
springs will help with rear end grip to, without seeing the car and what your trying to achieve this is the advice I would give.
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 10:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Mike, just my humble opinion but don't go for helper springs, your going to end up with two different spring rates and also introduce some roll
during hard cornering, your racing it yea ?
Shorter springs, move the mounts (are the rear shocks upright or angled ?) or go for slightly softer springs that you can pre load, slightly softer
springs will help with rear end grip to, without seeing the car and what your trying to achieve this is the advice I would give.
Yeah racing. I've just gone for softer springs, and the same length as before and now expiriencing this due to slightly more droop available
from the new dampers. I'm hoping they will settle and become tight. The helper springs are only like 4lbs, so not really contributing to
anything, just enough to keep tension. I don't want to go softer than i am already, not yet anyway.
Oh and its a live axle, fury, so lots of work to change pick up points, its not a simple change.
P.s. I'm actually called austen, not mike 
[Edited on 5/5/10 by MK9R]
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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ReMan
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 10:27 AM |
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Just to clarify...
Are you saying that before you fitted these, the springs were rattling aroung on the shocker body, ie not held between top and bottom spring platform?
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 10:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Just to clarify...
Are you saying that before you fitted these, the springs were rattling aroung on the shocker body, ie not held between top and bottom spring platform?
No they weren't not with old springs and dampers. All purely down to the fact the new dampers have slightly more travel, although i would have
expected the softer springs to compensate for this (dropped from 225 to 180)
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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rallyingden
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 10:53 AM |
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On tarmac set up I had with the rally car I had similar problems but ended up just lockwiring the spring to the bottom seat to stop it moving about
...... worked a treat 
RD
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 11:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rallyingden
On tarmac set up I had with the rally car I had similar problems but ended up just lockwiring the spring to the bottom seat to stop it moving about
...... worked a treat
RD
Now thats a bloody good (cheap) idea!! LOL! An internal guide would be needed to stop it falling off the seat aswell though
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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ReMan
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 11:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Just to clarify...
Are you saying that before you fitted these, the springs were rattling aroung on the shocker body, ie not held between top and bottom spring platform?
No they weren't not with old springs and dampers. All purely down to the fact the new dampers have slightly more travel, although i would have
expected the softer springs to compensate for this (dropped from 225 to 180)
Yes, but surely the spring lenth is set, as is the damper lenght and the 2 should be matched?
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Alan M
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 11:26 AM |
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can't you use adjustable bump stops?
These were fitted to Toyota sports car suspension in the 80's
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TimC
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 02:42 PM |
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Ah, I'd misunderstood your problem.
Just get your hand in your pocket Son. Merlin have some good stuff but, by God, does it cost - I went through this with ARB bits.
Then again, think about what your new dampers/springs have cost compaed to those on the SABRE!! (Holy Sh1t!)
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Frosty
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 02:48 PM |
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I wouldn't cut corners with it. Helper springs and extra platforms are the cheapest proper way to run the target ride height. Do make sure that
you have enough travel left in the damper when running short springs though, especially with a soft spring.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 04:37 PM |
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Do the job properly, once, and fit the right length springs. The suggestions above fix the symptom, not the problem. When softening the springs, you
often have to go an inch or so longer.
Faulkners list 7", 8",9", 10",10.5", then 12" and up.
Cheers,
Nev.
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Frosty
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 04:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Do the job properly, once, and fit the right length springs. The suggestions above fix the symptom, not the problem. When softening the springs, you
often have to go an inch or so longer.
Faulkners list 7", 8",9", 10",10.5", then 12" and up.
Cheers,
Nev.
So then how does the OP achieve the ride height required with a longer spring?
Presumably the reason the spring is too short at full droop is because a longer spring would not allow the desired ride height at its lowest setting.
You have to make the decision to run a shorter spring when the current one is still too high for the desired ride height when adjusted as low as
possible. Going shorter will often leave the spring loose at full droop.
There is nothing wrong with a helper spring. They exist for exactly this problem. A longer spring is not the answer.
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ReMan
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 09:06 PM |
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Surely this is achieved by the corect spring /damper lenth combo?
Am I missing something? 
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Ahdammit
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| posted on 5/5/10 at 10:53 PM |
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Why not make some check straps out of an old seatbelt or similar to stop the shocks extending too far?
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