Nash
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 06:09 AM |
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S2000 Engine and box help
Hi All,
I have noticed a few people on here have gone (or are going) the S2000 engine route. I'm in the engine swap phase now and have some questions
about the above that I hope you can help me with. So here goes:
1. Is there a "right" S2000 engine and box model to go for?
2. Does the engine and box go into an MK indy (Sevenesque) chassis without major mod? By this I mean do you have to replace the T/B and shorten the
sump, chop the gearbox area about etc etc?
3. What diff ratio do you need to run (7" IRS Sierra diff)?
4. Will it run on the std ECU or is it an Oxem / Emerald / DTA type rewire?
Any other gems of wisdom gretefully received.
Many thanks in advance all.
Regards............. Neil
It's What You Do Next That Counts.
Build It, Buy It, Drive It:
Southern Kit Car Club
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 06:31 AM |
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Just about fits 
Ben
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hughpinder
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 07:09 AM |
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I may be wrong, but I thought the engine rotated the opposite way, so you need to change the diff too??
Hugh
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 07:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
I may be wrong, but I thought the engine rotated the opposite way, so you need to change the diff too??
Hugh
I do enjoy a bit of scare-mongering!
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SPYDER
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 07:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
I may be wrong.......
Hugh
This may be true of most of Hondas engines but the S2000 lump turns the correct way as far as we are concerned.
It isn't so easy to turn a Sierra diff over to counteract the "counter-rotation phenomenon" so people normally just fit the rear
wheels upside-down.
Geoff
[Edited on 24/9/10 by SPYDER]
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chris mason
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 07:59 AM |
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1, No any of the s2000 engine and boxes will be fine
2, No, the bellhousing is too large for the tunnel, it may fit by placing the engine further forward but then you run in to other complications. When
i built mine (2005/6) the tunnel was modded to fit the bellhousing, with the engine as far back as we could get it, the dry sump pump pulley was
within 5mm of the lower rear front wishbone chassis bracket. Although it now seems that people have run ok, with the stock sump, albeit with issue
around ground clearance.
3, While your modding the chassis to take the the s2000 gearbox, you may as get rid of the ford diff and fit the s2000 diff, the ratio is better
suited to a 7, than any of the ford alternatives, failing that buy a new crown wheel and pinion for the for diff and have it changed over. The stock
s2000 diff is 4.1 iirc
4, I went with the Hydra, back in 2005 there wasn't much info available for the s2000 ecu. 5 years on it may be different.
5, Your Budget, if you go about it a similar way to what i did, then the engine,gearbox install all working and ready to go will probably set you back
close to £6000, miss out the dry sump set up and your looking at around £4000 on a good day. Don't forget to factor in £5-600 for a day on the
rollers if you go the aftermarket ecu route.
Chris
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hughpinder
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 08:08 AM |
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Looks like I was wrong then!!!
I like the proposed fixes! LOL
ETA - surely fitting the wheels upside down counteracts squat/dive - they need to be back to front for wrong rotation?
Hugh
[Edited on 24/9/10 by hughpinder]
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franky
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 08:12 AM |
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Why can't you use the standard ecu?
The DTA ones are about £700 but you do get traction/launch control etc built in.
s2000 engine/box combo's have come down in price recently. I've seen them in cars that are running for £2k.
You could fit an 'M' series engine for less though
More power/same weight/less cost.
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boggle
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 08:34 AM |
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or just go BEC
just because you are a character, doesnt mean you have character....
for all your bespoke parts, ali welding, waterjet, laser, folding, turning, milling, composite work, spraying, anodising and cad drawing....
u2u me for details
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Nash
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 10:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
1, No any of the s2000 engine and boxes will be fine
2, No, the bellhousing is too large for the tunnel, it may fit by placing the engine further forward but then you run in to other complications. When
i built mine (2005/6) the tunnel was modded to fit the bellhousing, with the engine as far back as we could get it, the dry sump pump pulley was
within 5mm of the lower rear front wishbone chassis bracket. Although it now seems that people have run ok, with the stock sump, albeit with issue
around ground clearance.
3, While your modding the chassis to take the the s2000 gearbox, you may as get rid of the ford diff and fit the s2000 diff, the ratio is better
suited to a 7, than any of the ford alternatives, failing that buy a new crown wheel and pinion for the for diff and have it changed over. The stock
s2000 diff is 4.1 iirc
4, I went with the Hydra, back in 2005 there wasn't much info available for the s2000 ecu. 5 years on it may be different.
5, Your Budget, if you go about it a similar way to what i did, then the engine,gearbox install all working and ready to go will probably set you back
close to £6000, miss out the dry sump set up and your looking at around £4000 on a good day. Don't forget to factor in £5-600 for a day on the
rollers if you go the aftermarket ecu route.
Chris
It's What You Do Next That Counts.
Build It, Buy It, Drive It:
Southern Kit Car Club
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Nash
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 10:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
1, No any of the s2000 engine and boxes will be fine
2, No, the bellhousing is too large for the tunnel, it may fit by placing the engine further forward but then you run in to other complications. When
i built mine (2005/6) the tunnel was modded to fit the bellhousing, with the engine as far back as we could get it, the dry sump pump pulley was
within 5mm of the lower rear front wishbone chassis bracket. Although it now seems that people have run ok, with the stock sump, albeit with issue
around ground clearance.
3, While your modding the chassis to take the the s2000 gearbox, you may as get rid of the ford diff and fit the s2000 diff, the ratio is better
suited to a 7, than any of the ford alternatives, failing that buy a new crown wheel and pinion for the for diff and have it changed over. The stock
s2000 diff is 4.1 iirc
4, I went with the Hydra, back in 2005 there wasn't much info available for the s2000 ecu. 5 years on it may be different.
5, Your Budget, if you go about it a similar way to what i did, then the engine,gearbox install all working and ready to go will probably set you back
close to £6000, miss out the dry sump set up and your looking at around £4000 on a good day. Don't forget to factor in £5-600 for a day on the
rollers if you go the aftermarket ecu route.
Chris
It's What You Do Next That Counts.
Build It, Buy It, Drive It:
Southern Kit Car Club
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chris mason
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 10:35 AM |
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Go on lad spit out, don't be shy
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
Looks like I was wrong then!!!
I like the proposed fixes! LOL
ETA - surely fitting the wheels upside down counteracts squat/dive - they need to be back to front for wrong rotation?
Hugh
[Edited on 24/9/10 by hughpinder]
easiest to fit the seat back to front and hod the steering wheel behind your back.
;-)
Matt
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Nash
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 12:13 PM |
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sorry Chris my puter obviously had a heart attack. I'll repeat this questions I had written (but clearly my work firewall didn't like.)
tonight when I get home.
Don't hold your breath its not that exciting 
......Cheers
It's What You Do Next That Counts.
Build It, Buy It, Drive It:
Southern Kit Car Club
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Nash
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 06:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
1, No any of the s2000 engine and boxes will be fine
2, No, the bellhousing is too large for the tunnel, it may fit by placing the engine further forward but then you run in to other complications. When
i built mine (2005/6) the tunnel was modded to fit the bellhousing, with the engine as far back as we could get it, the dry sump pump pulley was
within 5mm of the lower rear front wishbone chassis bracket. Although it now seems that people have run ok, with the stock sump, albeit with issue
around ground clearance.
3, While your modding the chassis to take the the s2000 gearbox, you may as get rid of the ford diff and fit the s2000 diff, the ratio is better
suited to a 7, than any of the ford alternatives, failing that buy a new crown wheel and pinion for the for diff and have it changed over. The stock
s2000 diff is 4.1 iirc
4, I went with the Hydra, back in 2005 there wasn't much info available for the s2000 ecu. 5 years on it may be different.
5, Your Budget, if you go about it a similar way to what i did, then the engine,gearbox install all working and ready to go will probably set you back
close to £6000, miss out the dry sump set up and your looking at around £4000 on a good day. Don't forget to factor in £5-600 for a day on the
rollers if you go the aftermarket ecu route.
Chris
Right lets try this again on my home PC:
First of all thanks for the quality reply Chris. I have a couple of supplimentary questions if I may:
1. What mods did you have to do to the chassis to get the box in?
2. Fitting 4.1 ratio into the 7" ford diff isn't an issue is there another reason I should swap them out?
3. It would be useful to know how the budget broke down for you (high level figures only) e.g.
Engine and box cost:
Chassis mods cost:
Engine and box mods cost:
ECU / wiring cost:
extras and fitting cost:
Time to fit:
anything else you can think of that will help me decide would be appreciated.
cheers.............. Neil
It's What You Do Next That Counts.
Build It, Buy It, Drive It:
Southern Kit Car Club
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 07:08 PM |
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neil. the cheapest way is to buy a cat c/d like i did. i got a 2003 with 25k for £3500
roof,seats,body pannels,lights,interior trim, brakes etc are all worth a small fortune an will re-coup a lot of the outlay. but then,, as always you
have exhaust manifold/headers, and an ecu. the standard unit can not run the install. i got an aem unit from garage r (s2000 specialists) for £400 and
its plug and play with existing harness!
i am using;
engine/box, diff, modified prop, steering wheel, column,clocks,dash and switches, chopped loom, etc and have sold the rest. i am hoping to have bought
all this for about £1000 once everything has been sold. (i have currently sold £2000 worth of bits)
whichever way you do it,it wont be cheap but i reckon doing it this way will be cheaper than even a bec install as there is no clocks, power
commander,diff, reverse box, etc to buy!
am not sure as to chassis moids but it fits im my mnr with ample ground clearence and the bonnet fits over it with no scoop!
[Edited on 24/9/10 by daniel mason]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 07:13 PM |
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also join the s2000 forum,loads of info on there and loads of goodies come for sale!
there has been a few complaints on there about the more recent engines going bang! circa 2007 i think.
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nz_climber
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| posted on 24/9/10 at 09:31 PM |
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Just letting you know unlike what has been said already, The s2000 engine can be run on the factory standard ecu!
A lot of the Aussie guys are doing it that way. so check out the www.ozclubbies.com.au forums for more infomation
http://aarons7.wordpress.com
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FASTdan
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| posted on 25/9/10 at 06:54 AM |
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Sorry I have no useful input but sounds like an exciting project 
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chris mason
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| posted on 25/9/10 at 07:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nash
Right lets try this again on my home PC:
First of all thanks for the quality reply Chris. I have a couple of supplimentary questions if I may:
1. What mods did you have to do to the chassis to get the box in?
2. Fitting 4.1 ratio into the 7" ford diff isn't an issue is there another reason I should swap them out?
3. It would be useful to know how the budget broke down for you (high level figures only) e.g.
Engine and box cost:
Chassis mods cost:
Engine and box mods cost:
ECU / wiring cost:
extras and fitting cost:
Time to fit:
anything else you can think of that will help me decide would be appreciated.
cheers.............. Neil
1, The tunnel width was increased to get the engine as far back as possible, the pedals were also moved back about 1.5" so that you could get
your feet on them due to the taper of the tunnel. Then the mods required to mount the diff. we also had a plate welded to the offside of the engine
bay to support the steering link as it took a different route to normal.
2, I personally thought the s2000 performed better than the ford lsd diff, but as they were used with different engines that may not be the case. If
your fitting a different crown wheel and pinion to the sierra diff then i'd try and get a 4.3 or 4.4 if you can, with 195/50/15 tyres and the
4.1 diff, the s2000 was geared for somewhere around 165mph iirc, Ideally i'd say 145mph would be ample.
3, From memory the costs were,
engine and box £2350
Chassis mods £0 Mk built the chassis to fit as new
Dry Sump inc fittings, tank etc £2000
Ecu, engine loom, mapping £2000
High quality engine rubbers x2 £100
exhaust manifold £400
If you let me know your email address (u2u it) i'll dig out some pictures to send to you.
Chris
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Rocket_Rabbit
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| posted on 26/9/10 at 02:29 AM |
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For ease of installation, avoid >2006 engines because they are DBW and ECU unfriendly.
Engines after 2004 tend to use less oil than the ones before. My 2000 JDM engine (in my S2000) has racked up 58k miles and uses about 1 litre of oil
every 3-4000 miles, so it's not bad at all.
>2004 gearboxes have beefed up carbonfibre synchromeshes, although it is rare that synchros cause problems in these cars, unlike nearly all other
Hondas!
If you are ever lucky enough to come accross a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) version, then get that - it doesn't have an ECU based immobiliser,
has a higher compression ratio (11.7:1 instead of 11:1) and produces 10bhp more.
The S2000 has a 4.1FD in its torsen diff. This gave the car a theoretical max of 172mph.
On 15" wheels, i'd leave it at 4.1 because you aren't going to have a problem with 1st gear acceleraton, so why bother changing
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/9/10 at 07:52 AM |
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quote:
The S2000 has a 4.1FD in its torsen diff.
Which is the best reason for getting the S2000 diff to go with the box/engine.
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