MkIndy7
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 08:21 PM |
|
|
Can a ST150 Duratec Alternator be used?
Pretty much as per title, Can or has anybody used the Standard alternator from the Fiesta ST150 duratec engine?.
From what I understand these Alternators have to be ECU controlled as they have a 3 wire connector from the ECU
as this quote from Pumabuild.co.uk would suggest:
Pumabuild Website
"You can tell an ECU controlled Alternator as it has 3 terminals on its block conector, A regulated ECU has only 2 terminals on the block
connector"
But there is also this thread on Turbosport.co.uk
Turbosport link
"i have hopefully re-wired the standard alternator to run normally, and charge like a conventional alternator, but until the engine is running
properly, i don't know
it doesn't self excite, but a quick blip on the throttle causes it to start working"
i wired it like type 4:
(the diagram then shows the pins left to right)
Battery Sense - Switched ign +12v - Warning light
But there is no followup to this thread to confirm or deny if this works.
Obviousley if it won't work as suspected then I will have to fit something else but it does seem a shame if it can't be used as its a
pretty compact unit.
I've tried searching for various things on the net and have come up with no definate answer
|
|
|
|
|
big_wasa
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:02 PM |
|
|
This is fords smart charge system, Ive used one in a mates.
Just by unpluging the three pin plug it charges the battery at a steady 14.4v or somthing like that.
This will not light the dash symbol so you have no tell-tale.
His has been on the road three months with no problems.
The three pins are ..
One controls the charge light.
One is a 12v referance voltage and is connected to live.
The last pin is the ecu telling the alternator to charge or not bassed on tempreture and other things. The ecu uses switched earths for every thing
elts . I suspect that its an earth and either starts or stops the charge but I havnt got around to proving this yet.
The idea is to cut load and therfore emisions when say in traffic at idle ect.
hope that helps.
[Edited on 16/11/10 by big_wasa]
|
|
|
MkIndy7
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:27 PM |
|
|
Thank you Very much thats exactly the type of info i'm after.
After looking up the Ford Smart Charge system i've found this:
Ford Smart Charge info:
Which seems to confirm as you've said without the ECU connector on it reverts to being a "normal" alternator.
I wonder if pin 1 could be used for the Charge light, if that reports back to the ECU what voltage its providing.
"Pin 1 = Alternator Feedback"
I suppose a quick check with a multimeter when the engine is running again would confirm or deny that.
|
|
|
big_wasa
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:33 PM |
|
|
Ive just had a look through my notes and I doubt it will be as easy as a switching earth as the signal from the ecu vairies the voltage Upto 18v .
|
|
|
big_wasa
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:36 PM |
|
|
Your link looks cut and paste from the info I have.
[Edited on 16/11/10 by big_wasa]
|
|
|
MkIndy7
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:39 PM |
|
|
Found a little more info now I now what to search for:
Alternator Waveforms
And here from an American website
American Power INC
So maybe its more complex the Pin 1 reports back the current charging state and then Pin2 can send back a request for a higher charging voltage if the
Battery is cold or something along them lines. (Bit like the Advance and retard on a EDIS unit)
|
|
|
big_wasa
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:46 PM |
|
|
There is only one pin conected to the ecu.
|
|
|
big_wasa
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:52 PM |
|
|
To add all my work has been with 99 black tops. Latter duratecs maybe canbus and work differantly.
|
|
|
MkIndy7
|
| posted on 16/11/10 at 09:58 PM |
|
|
So there is, in the Last *.pdf link I put up that would be wire 49 that goes between the ECU and the Alternator.
Maybe the V+ wire would be the one to use for the Charge light on the existing dash then,
From what I remember then I wired that up,
Theres a Ignition live to the Charge light and then from the other side of the light a wire to the alternator,
When the ignition is on but the engine not running the alternator is effectively -12v so the bulb lights,
Then when the engine is running and the alternator charging this becomes +12v also so the bulb goes out.
So maybe, just maybe, it could still all work correctly.
|
|
|
MkIndy7
|
| posted on 17/11/10 at 08:53 PM |
|
|
Hmm we've had a quick go tonight Spinning the Alternator with an electric drill and couldn't get any charge out of it.
We had a +ve from a battery going to the Big +ve stud on the back of the alternator and the -ve from a battery connected to the bolts that hold it to
the engine and the Voltage never increase with the drill spinning it.
We then rigged up a "normal" alrernator in the same way and when it recieved its battery light excitement voltage it charged at upto 15v
with the drill so thats spinning fast enough.
Puzzled now, I wonder if the +12v wire from the Duratec alternator to the Battery (on the data plug)needs to be connected to Excite the alternator,
but all the websites seem to suggest if you disconect this (data plug) then the alternator still charges as normal.
|
|
|
beaver34
|
| posted on 17/11/10 at 09:18 PM |
|
|
ive run my 3 pin item for 2 years with nothing connected works fine
|
|
|
phongshader
|
| posted on 15/2/12 at 01:51 AM |
|
|
How have your alternators been working? I'm just trying to figure out how to wire mine up.
|
|
|
