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Author: Subject: "Fuel your Car on Water" - Believe it or not
onenastyviper

posted on 11/7/11 at 09:30 AM Reply With Quote
"Fuel your Car on Water" - Believe it or not

http://www.h20fuel.co.uk/

What do you guys think of this?

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Macbeast

posted on 11/7/11 at 09:43 AM Reply With Quote
www. fuel your car on snake oil.con





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tomgregory2000

posted on 11/7/11 at 09:43 AM Reply With Quote
Run your car on bullsh1t


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coozer

posted on 11/7/11 at 09:44 AM Reply With Quote
Without looking.. Believe it not....





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mookaloid

posted on 11/7/11 at 09:45 AM Reply With Quote
Snake oil





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BigMac

posted on 11/7/11 at 10:12 AM Reply With Quote
"... we simply split the Hydrogen from the water and use it as fuel to run your vehicle on ..."

Didn't realise it was THAT easy to split Hydrogen from Water

If it's that simple and I was that smart, sod converting cars, I'd have sold the technology that makes it so simple and made Wonga angels in the billions upon billions I'd have made... But maybe I'm motivated a little differently...

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Humbug

posted on 11/7/11 at 10:13 AM Reply With Quote
"Fuel your Car on Water" - Believe it or not
quote:
Originally posted by onenastyviper
http://www.h20fuel.co.uk/

What do you guys think of this?


OK, I think I'll choose... hmmm, let me see: "Not"!

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GeoffT

posted on 11/7/11 at 10:34 AM Reply With Quote
quote:

we simply split the Hydrogen from the water



......but they always omit to mention that this takes more energy than you'll ever get from the gasses produced.

To my mind these claims are nothing less than fraud and the trading standards office should be having a word with these people.....

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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 11/7/11 at 10:34 AM Reply With Quote
FOR THOSE INTERNET SITES CLAIMING THAT HYDROGEN CANNOT BE USED IN VEHICLES, WE FORMALLY ISSUE A CHALLENGE. MEET WITH US, LOOK AT OUR SYSTEM, SEE IT FITTED TO A VEHICLE AND SEE THE ELECTRONIC HYDROCARBON READ OUTS. THEN WHEN PROVEN WRONG WE EXPECT YOU TO DISCONTINUE WITH NEGATIVE PUBLICITY. WE DO NOT HOWEVER EXPECT YOU TO STOP NAMING AND SHAMIMG THE COMPANIES THAT ARE FRAUDULENT AND THAT GIVE REPUTABLE COMPANIES AS OURSELVES BAD NAMES.

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Irony

posted on 11/7/11 at 10:49 AM Reply With Quote
Well thats good then - it will make running my V8 a bit cheaper. I might get fed up with walking to and from the kitchen with a jug of water to fill the car up however.

[Edited on 11/7/11 by Irony]

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steve m

posted on 11/7/11 at 10:53 AM Reply With Quote
"Didn't realise it was THAT easy to split Hydrogen from Water "

Making Hydrogen IS easy, and can be made by putting a + and - charge in to a sealed container of water
Hydrogen will rise to the top

its very very easy, and i have done it several times, but it is dangerous (very explosive)

wether you can run a car on it, i doubt, but i would certainly put money on being able to do so in the future

steve

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Irony

posted on 11/7/11 at 11:11 AM Reply With Quote
You might think if this was a true 'wonder' product they might be able to get enough investment to manufacture a better website. Even the email is a free one

h20fuel@live.co.uk

We should all invest and become billionaires.

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JoelP

posted on 11/7/11 at 11:22 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
"Didn't realise it was THAT easy to split Hydrogen from Water "

Making Hydrogen IS easy, and can be made by putting a + and - charge in to a sealed container of water
Hydrogen will rise to the top

its very very easy, and i have done it several times, but it is dangerous (very explosive)

wether you can run a car on it, i doubt, but i would certainly put money on being able to do so in the future

steve


I dont doubt for a minute you can split water with electrical current, or that one can make an engine that uses hydrogen as a fuel. Where it falls down is simple physics; there is no input of energy to the system. Ie, it takes more energy to split the water than you get back from your engine - and i mean much more. IC engines are about 30% efficient.





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whitestu

posted on 11/7/11 at 11:26 AM Reply With Quote
This sounds good - could make filling up interesting!


quote:

Hydrogen can also be made from urine. Using urine, hydrogen production is 332% more energy efficient than using water.[12][13] The research was conducted by Geraldine Botte from the Ohio University. Recently, Dr. Shanwen Tao of the Heriot-Watt University has invented a Carbamide Power System Fuel Cell that can immediately convert urine into electricity.[14]



Stu

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Mr Whippy

posted on 11/7/11 at 11:31 AM Reply With Quote
there's so many now of these garbage sites and products on the web that just pray on people ignorance

this site is one of the best known

just look at the price of that jam jar! linky

[Edited on 11/7/11 by Mr Whippy]






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MikeRJ

posted on 11/7/11 at 11:38 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Snake Oil Peddlers
FOR THOSE INTERNET SITES CLAIMING THAT HYDROGEN CANNOT BE USED IN VEHICLES, WE FORMALLY ISSUE A CHALLENGE. MEET WITH US, LOOK AT OUR SYSTEM, SEE IT FITTED TO A VEHICLE AND SEE THE ELECTRONIC HYDROCARBON READ OUTS. THEN WHEN PROVEN WRONG WE EXPECT YOU TO DISCONTINUE WITH NEGATIVE PUBLICITY. WE DO NOT HOWEVER EXPECT YOU TO STOP NAMING AND SHAMIMG THE COMPANIES THAT ARE FRAUDULENT AND THAT GIVE REPUTABLE COMPANIES AS OURSELVES BAD NAMES.


I doubt anyone has ever claimed that you can not run an internal combustion engine on hydrogen, this is entirely possible. Creating enough hydrogen by electrolysing water to run the engine, using only the power output of that engine is blatantly not possible. However, the front page of the scammer's website clearly says "Run your vehicle on water".

quote:
Originally posted by Snake Oil Peddlers

There is also another reason why this gas works so well in an internal combustion engine. The Hydrogen, being the smallest particle in nature, hits a droplet of fuel, cuts it into smaller droplets and attaches themselves to the smaller droplets. Now the finer, hydrogen-enhanced fuel mist is capable of burning more thoroughly.



Just amazing. They have found out how to create ninja hydrogen atoms that have tiny swords to cleave the (relatively) enormous droplets of fuel into tiny bits.

[Edited on 11/7/11 by MikeRJ]

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balidey

posted on 11/7/11 at 11:54 AM Reply With Quote
I seem to remember a few years ago someone who was an 'expert' in this field was killed in a car accident. Loads of rumours that he had perfected the technique and was bumped off by the oil industry. This just added to the rumours it was possible.

Can you run your car on water? No. Can you run a car of some sort on Hydrogen ? Yes.
If we use clean energy (or even nuclear) to produce the hydrogen then we could almost switch over from petrol to hydrogen fuel cells. We could convert 90% of cars on the road. Polution would be almost zero.

As for is it safe? I think it was James May in one of his recent programs that said 'Imagine if you tried to convince someone to move round in a small steel box that you pour a highly flammable liquid into it and then ignite the liquid and that you can get this liquid in all towns and you can just pour it in yourself. Sounds crazy, yet this is what we do with our current cars. So why not Hydrogen?





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Mr Whippy

posted on 11/7/11 at 12:03 PM Reply With Quote
probably the best safety aspect of hydrogen is any gas leak immediately rises high into the air, I do have concerns of some of the pressures they are using on the tanks, 10,000psi is always going to go with a hell of a bang, hydrogen or not...






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RazMan

posted on 11/7/11 at 12:06 PM Reply With Quote
This kind of idea has been kicking around for years but nothing convincing has ever been developed, although a friend of mine has applied a bit of lateral thinking to his project. He has devised a system for big trucks where even a small percentage saved on fuel is still very significant in terms of hard cash.

To over simplify, his system only generates gas during braking - the extra load on the alternator improves the engine braking so acts like a hybrid car. The gas is stored in a pressurised tank and is only used under heavy acceleration. The whole setup is quite sophisticated and involves a second alternator, engine management system and a whole load of plumbing! He says that his test truck went from 8mpg to 9mpg





Cheers,
Raz

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blakep82

posted on 11/7/11 at 12:15 PM Reply With Quote
^ isn't that what that ad-blu (?) stuff does for trucks?

if not then what does it do?





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onenastyviper

posted on 11/7/11 at 12:17 PM Reply With Quote
I love things like this - pseudoscience, don't leave home without it.
Anyway, if you split pure water, you get hydrogen and oxygen gas roughly in the ratio of 2-1 (I think).
What I don't understand is that if you inject a hydrogen-oxygen charge into the cylinder, what happens to the existing mixture of petrol/diesel and air?
Does it simply make it burn better?
Is it nothing more than substitutional (x Joules from petrol & air replaced with y Joules of Hydrogen and Air/oxygen)?
Any physicists out there availble for comment?

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Mr Whippy

posted on 11/7/11 at 12:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
This kind of idea has been kicking around for years but nothing convincing has ever been developed, although a friend of mine has applied a bit of lateral thinking to his project. He has devised a system for big trucks where even a small percentage saved on fuel is still very significant in terms of hard cash.

To over simplify, his system only generates gas during braking - the extra load on the alternator improves the engine braking so acts like a hybrid car. The gas is stored in a pressurised tank and is only used under heavy acceleration. The whole setup is quite sophisticated and involves a second alternator, engine management system and a whole load of plumbing! He says that his test truck went from 8mpg to 9mpg


that's fine though spinning up a flywheel to store braking energy is just as good and tried before. Only prob is it's no use to trucks that are doing long haulage as they hardly have to brake, you can get far better savings just streamlining them properly






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balidey

posted on 11/7/11 at 12:33 PM Reply With Quote
Re-reading some of that first website thats posted up, I'm now not sure what this company is even offering.

If they took your car, removed the petrol tank, fitted a water tank, fitted all the aparatus to create and store hydrogen and then run the car off hydrogen then I can see it working. Thats all possible. Expensive, not very efficient, but possible.

But they seem to just be injecting water into an IC engine. And then saying the reduced readings on the lambda sensor prove its working.

And yes you can inject water into an IC engine. Infact it can help reduce charge temp, and ups compression. But they seem to be selling this as 'running on water', when what you are really doing is 'running on petrol with a very small amount of water too' and then waffling on about science that is not relevant.

Some people.





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02GF74

posted on 11/7/11 at 12:33 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy

that's fine though spinning up a flywheel to store braking energy is just as good and tried before. Only prob is it's no use to trucks that are doing long haulage as they hardly have to brake, you can get far better savings just streamlining them properly


or tie the containers close together so they use the same hole punched through the air, a bit like a train.





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ChrisW

posted on 11/7/11 at 02:39 PM Reply With Quote
There is some truth in it as far as I can work out in that hydrogen can be used as a fuel in an IC engine, the same as any other flammable gas (or atomised liquid for that matter) can.

The issue is that getting the hydrogen from water takes the same amount of energy as you release by burning it, so the net effect to you as an individual is that you'll be running your car on electricity. It's just a way of storing that electricity and taking it with you, much like a big battery.

Now, if you had a free an unlimited source of electricity, for example your own hydro plant or something like that, then you might be on to something but most people don't have such luxuries so you're stuck making it from electricity you buy off the national grid.

Now, what does seem to be true is that electricity is about half the price of petrol in terms of energy released per spent, so if all other parts of the equation are equal you could in theory run your car half price. However, it's unlikely that this would be the case in the real world, especially once you've taken into account the cost of storing the hydrogen, transferring to the car, etc. That's before the various inefficiencies in the system come in which I wouldn't even know where to start counting. For example, is an IC engine more or less efficient when running on hydrogen compared to petrol? How much energy is lost to heat during the electrolsys of the water? (...and I'm sure there are hundreds of others)

The other issue is the explosive nature of hydrogen/oxygen mix. When it's produced from water the exact quantities of each gas are produced to make a highly explosive mixture. The trick to making the hydrogen "safe" is to remove the oxygen from the mix and just add air during the combustion process, but that's very difficult to do, and has been the subject of some very expensive research that's been going on for many years.

Now that's not to say hydrogen is out of the picture when it comes to fuels, far from it. It's just that we need to find better ways of producing it - for example biologically - and better ways of using it - hydrogen fuel cells perhaps - before it will be viable.

Cheers, Chris

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