DIY Si
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 09:27 AM |
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House covenant issue
Morning all.
I am in need of advice. I'm having some bother with the woman who lives next door.
First, some back story. She is the type to have loud drunken parties until 3 am on a week night and just generally can't do anything quietly,
including talking usually. I have been round in the past to ask her to keep it down, and as such she now views me as the nasty man next door. She
recently complained to the local council (and not me) about some grinding I was doing one afternoon as I didn't shut the garage door as it was
quite warm. This is still on going and her landlords are now involved.
Now the bit I could do with some advice with. Last night her new partner was seen taking pictures of my Eon transit van and a friend's car which
was parked outside the house as he'd come to give me a lift to the pub. The van I park on the driveway due to living in a smallish close and
there's no where else sensible to park it as there are driveways across the road. I used to park my Transit Connect half on the path outside my
house so my partner could use the drive, but this isn't a good idea with a full size van.
However, in the original deeds of the house there are some covenants that state something along the lines of I should not park any boats, caravans or
commercial vehicles on the property. I don't have a copy of the deeds to hand, so I can't confirm the wording. If I don't park on
the driveway, I will either restrict access to at least one driveway or partly block access to a number of houses. And whilst it may not matter
legally, there are many other properties that have caravans or van on the drive ways around the estate.
So basically, how enforceable are covenants on a 25 year old house that wasn't sold to me originally? And who enforces them?
Many thanks!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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russbost
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 09:44 AM |
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No expert on this, but I think with the sort of covenant you are talking about it is the Council who has to enforce.
Apart from the occasional jumped up mini Hitler, I think you'll find that most Councils tend to be fairly sensible about this.
The original covenant was almost certainly aimed at large trucks, Pikey pickups etc., although technically your van is a commercial vehicle I assume
it isn't unsightly or painted garish pink with luminous green signwriting! If you are able to point to half a dozen caravans & similar all
breaking the covenant they can't really enforce one without enforcing all.
Further, they don't want your vehicle parked on the road (which you can legally do as long as it's correctly parked) any more than you do,
so I wouldn't worry about it.
The other alternative is to go round & beat the neighbour to a bloody pulp, in which case you won't need to worry about parking as
you'll be inside for the next 20 years or so!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 09:48 AM |
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Whilst my Mrs wouldn't object to slapping the daft cow next door, I'd rather not. As you say, she's not worth the time inside! 
Also, even if it can be enforced, I'll probably just park my van outside her house on the road as I know that's perfectly legal.
The van is one of EOn's standard dull orange coloured vans with white sign writing. Ok, it would benefit from a clean, but it can't be
seen from her house as mine is in the way.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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stevebubs
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:07 AM |
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Start parking it on the road right next to her drive...nothing she can do about it...Parking in my street is a nightmare due to an ironing company
being run out of the house in the corner...nothing the council will do as they're legally parked...
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stevebubs
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:08 AM |
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On another note, if her parties are that rambunctious and regular, make a note of the times/dates.
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:17 AM |
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Plus date/time coded videos with sound if possible.
There is always two sides to any argument.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Peteff
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:23 AM |
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Make as much noise as you like and when you like just same as she does, preferably when she's sleeping off the effects of one of her parties.
When my mother was alive she had a neighbour who liked to have parties every Saturday night into Sunday morning then stay in bed all day Sunday so mum
used to turn the telly and stereo on, put the speakers to the wall and go out for the day. When the neighbour complained she just said, I put up with
yours so you can put up with mine. The neighbour only lasted 3 months and the council moved her. If you know who her landlord is just drop him a line
that she is using the house in a manner upsetting to the neighbours, complaining works both ways.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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designer
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:26 AM |
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quote:
Parking in my street is a nightmare due to an ironing company being run out of the house in the corner
I understood, you cannot run a business from home if it has any effect at all on neighbours. Any home business which involves people coming and going
has to go through the council.
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Theshed
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:27 AM |
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Covenants such as you have are very common and were inserted by the original estate builder/vendor to enhance the value of the property. They are
enforceable almost always by the original vendor or his/her successors and sometimes where expressly permitted - by the other residents of an estate.
It depends on the wording. Unless the council was the vendor they would not have any rights to enforce.
Is it a shared driveway? If so parking is usually a no no. If not then much depends on the covenant.
As for parking on the road. Obstructing somebody else's driveway is unlawful. Obstructing your own is not.
If you possibly could I would kiss and make up. These things can fester for years and will knock thousands off the value of your home (they must
usually be disclosed upon sale)
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 10:38 AM |
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Thanks for all the advice so far. The driveway is split with a post and chain fence, so there is a distinct boundary there.
Whilst I would prefer to kiss and make up, this has been going on for too long to do that. She doesn't respond to polite ankings and ignores
notes. When she complained about my noise it wasn't to be but to the council and the local old bill. Even the PCSO that had to come out was
embarrassed by having to respond!
I think the original vendor was Persimmon, so not the council. She however is a housing association tenant. We've already involved her landlords
and they've told us they're not happy with her behaviour either. I've spoken to other neighbours and even people 7-8 doors down are
hacked off with her making noise!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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PSpirine
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 12:21 PM |
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I have a very similar issue with a near-as-damnit identical covenant.
It is enforceable by the developer, or whoever the management rights pass onto. In my case it is the residence association which manages the court.
The council have no say in it, it's a civil matter that needs to be taken to court by the resident's association. I *think* individual
residents can also enforce it, but as it involves a lot of legal proceedings and damages which aren't exactly quantifiable, it rarely
happens.
Best thing to do is park on the street.
As for their behaviour, I'd go over your covenant. Mine certainly has something along the lines of "not to undertake any activities which
would harm, disturb, or be an annoyance or disruption to other residents or the <court/estate>". That includes parties.
If it's a council owned estate, it's a bit of a different ball game unfortunately.
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mds167
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 12:49 PM |
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As previously noted, you can usually apply to the builder (if they set the covenent - check your deeds) to remove it for a small fee.
This is often the case for people that want to erect fences/chop down trees/convert garages. Your solicitor should have informed you of all covenents
at purchase.
As for parking on the road or part on the pavement, this can be an issue depending on the size of the road and distance from junctions.
I live in a very small and narrow cul-de-sac (close?) near a school so you can imagine the parking issues at certain times. The police have power to
fine/tow offenders (we have a letter from TVP showing where in the road is inappropriate). The road doesn't need double or single lines - so be
careful were you/visitors park. I always think "Can a fire engine pass?".
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 01:00 PM |
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How did it come about regarding your covenant? If it were me I wouldn't do anything. You'll get a letter first requesting that you
comply with the covenant or face action, at which point you move the vehicle.
She has everything to lose, and you are in the stronger position being the home owner, so stick to your guns and don't let them bully you into
accepting their unacceptable behaviour.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mrwibble
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 02:12 PM |
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if shes a tenant, would she know about the covenants on the property? I agree with above, just sit on it for a minute, who knows what he was taking
pictures for. I can sympathise though, for a time my neighbour would complain about my brothers music - which i struggled to keep within tolerable
limits - he moved out 2 years ago and i haven't made any noise, now his son turns up at 11ish at night with his stereo blaring and sits on the
drive for a good few minutes while he picks his nose or something... What do they do when i mention it? His son now revs his engine at 7.30 am before
he goes to work for no apparent reason - its a diesel golf!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 02:45 PM |
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The covenant thing came about when I went round this morning to ask what her partner was doing taking pics of both my friend's car and my van.
She said that HE thinks there's something in the title deeds that prevent me parking there, and he "wasn't happy" with how my
friend had parked. Given that both her and her friends park on the curb and outside either house, she'll be on a losing battle with that bit.
I have no intention to do anything as yet. If she wants a fight she can start it and present me with any evidence. Her landlords know it's her
partner that's started the problems this time, and they're very not happy about it as he doesn't live there and is aggravating an
existing situation.
For those that have said the best thing to do is park on the street, I would agree if there was space. The close is a bit narrow and the width of the
van would restrict access for anything of a similar size.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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mrwibble
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 03:04 PM |
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i wonder how HE knew, was it that someone has moaned about a dirty old van full of tat that he once owned?
best to try and forget the nobs, difficult though isn't it.
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snakebelly
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 05:16 PM |
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just start going out occassionally and start taking pics of her driveway and house, when she asks why just tell her shes not the only one with a copy
of the covenant, its all bull but my guess is that she may back off when presented with the fictitour possibility of retaliation.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 05:36 PM |
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Is she on benefits?? if so keep an eye out for said partner, and if appropriate let the benefits people know. I am not a snitch, but I do not want to
support such people with my taxes
Next, speak to the council about the neighbours partner is taking odd pictures of your house and vehicles and you have concerns about their behaviour.
And maybe the housing association. They may want to know is she is shacked up with somebody.
However, a HA will have real difficulty getting her out, the only way is if she breaks her tenancy, and it has to be bad.
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T66
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 05:46 PM |
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When I used to deal with housing type issues a few years ago, the council rarely got involved, they tended to be happy to backseat stuff I was doing,
if it was a council property. If it was privately owned or privately rented, forget it they are not interested.
If they are responsible for prosecuting the covenant breaches (if there are any), I wouldnt worry too much about it, as theyhave better things to
spend their cash on, than a neighbour dispute.
I dealt with a couple who objected to their neighbour putting his wheely bin on the footpath infront of their house, the guy only did this as his
drive was quite wide. I told the bloke and his missus off for being too intolerant, before I knew it they were on the phone to my boss.
This obsession manifested itself into them ringing me about a month later, as they had evidence of the guy coming home in his gas board van at
lunchtime. They rang the gas board and complained, then objected that the van was blocking their view from their living room window.
When I asked why they cherished the view so much and planted Leylandi trees there, the van was actually blocking the gaps in their trees, they got
very upset with my flippant attitude and accused me of being a mason, they thought their neighbour was !
They again got some straight talk - I left.....and they complained again.
Best advice I can give, keep your own business in order, dont get hung up on their behaviour and for gods sake dont install cctv, it will take over
your life.
There is nothing worse than idiot neighbours , try and look through it if you can. Ive been there myself, and sometimes thats easier said than
done.
Good luck.
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iank
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 07:50 PM |
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If it escalates further and you're prepared for things to potentially turn nasty then wait for the next wild party and call the police to
complain about the noise/rowdy behaviour and mention that you think you can smell weed. Someone will be bound to have some and their lives will be
made very miserable - especially if the housing association find out
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 08:02 PM |
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Nowt worse than bad neighbours. From my experience of dealing with LOADS of petty squabbles like this I know there's nowt worse.
I know that in Manchester Council and Salford Council they have a team that will deal with neighbour problems and come out and try to mediate and
bring the two together ( I had to sit through an hours plus presentation of this) and on the other hand with private houses, Manchester Council at
least have anti social behaviour teams that will deal with these, as well as their own tenants.
Keep a diary of the noise or whatever with dates and times as you will only be told to do this in the first instance then have a go at contacting your
council for like teams. They don't advertise their services so no one would know any different.
My tip, don't bother ringing the police. You'll be told that the council deal with noise issues be it a regular issue or a noisy party,
cannabis or not because by the time they get to coming around the smell will probably have subsided and in my experience in excess of 50% of the
houses I visit smell of weed!
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The Shootist
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 09:08 PM |
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Try this...
For Sale by Owner
Because My Neighbor is an Arsole
The sign alone should be shame enough.
[Edited on 11/17/11 by The Shootist]
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 09:29 PM |
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PSpirine
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 09:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by The Shootist
For Sale by Owner
Because My Neighbor is an Arsole
The sign alone should be shame enough.
[Edited on 11/17/11 by The Shootist]
Wouldn't do wonders for property values though
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dray13dad
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| posted on 17/11/11 at 09:40 PM |
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Most covenants have a time span, normally ten yrs,your well over this.check your paper work from when you purchased house.survay should have shown
this up..
Had one on this house but as was held with builder and he went bust covenant fell flat..
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