bobinspain
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 11:59 AM |
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BEC (Busa) transmission.
Never having owned a bike, the Indy's my first experience of a bike engine/transmission. That said, I'd welcome comments/advice on the
following:
1. Gear changes sound like a 'bag of spanners' being rattled around. Either up or down, (particularly clutched shifts).
2. The above seems to come about because there feels a lot of 'play' in the system. eg coming up the steep hill to the house is a 600metre
twisty run. Going at it quickly in first, (or second) is fine, but if I try and 'feather' my way up, there's no earthly way to drive
smoothly. It's either full-on or nowt.
3. The gear selection can be a little bit 'hit or miss', particularly 2nd to first and first to neutral. I've heeded Baz's
advice at MK and come down the box approaching junctions. Not to do so is embarrassing when I stall it three times, with traffic backing up behind
me.
4. The Flatshifter upshifts feel smoother with more revs on. (Better than any manual shifts I make).
It's very early days yet, only had the car 10 days and done 120 miles, however, assurances would be most welcome. (Along with cautions too).
Regards, Bob.
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bob tatt
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 12:17 PM |
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You get used to the harsh boxes, saying that it is possible to drive them smoothly practise is the key.
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Davegtst
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 12:48 PM |
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Maybe it needs a cush drive propshaft. I know my mk supplied prop is just a normal prop that has been cut down an a uj welded on the end
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scootz
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 01:07 PM |
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I'm afraid that's one of the downsides to BEC ownership Bob... anything other than full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode is a bit of a
pain in the arse!
It's Evolution Baby!
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big_l
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 01:36 PM |
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I had similar issues with my box but I spoke to the people that made the prop and they said if the prop was filled with tightly rolled up card board
then it would dramatically reduce the metallic noises iwadgetting every time I change gear !!
Like scootz said anything other than flat out is a big hard work it does get better with practice though !!
Check out my blog  mnrvortxhayabusa@blogspot.com
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Andy B
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 01:37 PM |
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Hi Bob
a few things might help, firstly you really do need to be using a resilient tube propshaft, if the prop is a solid steel affair the lack of a cush
drive will lead to premature gearbox and diff wear/ failure. The slack you refer to is typical with a dog box, basically the land that the dogs locate
in are larger than the dog to give a bigger target for the dog to aim at, otherwise finding a gear would be almost impossible.
Second thing - fit a simple overide switch to the flatshifter and run with bypassed for town work, the shifter will perform nicely when being driven
hard but round town when the car is not "taut" they can be a hindrance. Whenever we install them we fit a 3 way stainless toggle switch -
on/off/on. In on position one the power to the coils is fed through flatshifter, in off position the vehicle is immobilised and in on position two the
power is fed direct to coils bypassing the flatshifter.
I always switch the flatshifter out round town as the combination of a relatively slow change, clutch and ignition cut makes the car real lumpy, then
when blasting on main highways or race tracks simply switch it back in.
Hope that helps
best regards
Andy
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 02:22 PM |
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Just to add, when I am driving on the road up to junctions or coming to a stop, with all my bike engined cars Ive had, I roll up in 2nd gear, then
select 1st gear when I stop, so you could give that method a try.
The other thing, sometimes when Ive drove other peoples bike engined cars including the Aries Ive just bought, there throttle's have been very
light, so when your trying to drive steady as you say the 600 metres up to your house, the throttle is either off or on, fitting a extra throttle
spring can help give you better control on this.
Also I take it you are doing clutchless up shifts and just using the clutch on down shifts?, might sound a silly question, but alot of people who have
never had bikes just don't know this or find it difficult to do.
[Edited on 19/05/04 by PAUL FISHER]
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ashg
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 03:16 PM |
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all i can say is welcome to the world of bec ownership and sequential boxes.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 03:37 PM |
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Absolutely *NOTHING* at all wrong or unusual with anything you've observed, said or are doing. All is well.
If anything consitutes a 'problem' for you going forward, you need to fit a car engined powerplant, the ultimate 'fix' being a
nice new Espace...
Don't worry, get used to the noise, revs and the sheer joy of a bike engined car. Undercutting the gear set will help engagement, something to
do next time you've got the engine in bits. Flatshifters/quickshifters/whatever are great when the revs are high, not so good otherwise (some
like the Translogic can be programmed not to be active below certain revs in certain gears). Finding neutral will never be easy.....
By the way, if you've got a reverse gearbox in the prop line then getting rid of that will help with some of the noise, backlash and clunk.
Removing it now will just pre-empt the removal of it later, or when it decides to do the act for you. I am **assuming** here that you've got a
prop and not a chain (MK Indy/Midi).
Finally............BOOK A TRACK DAY...... you'll love the car a lot after that. That Espace won't get a second thought.
And very finally... try a bike too... a (now) cheap GSXR1000 K1-4 will teach you lot. The rest of the planet will appear to be stationary!
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bobinspain
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 03:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm afraid that's one of the downsides to BEC ownership Bob... anything other than full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode is a bit of a
pain in the arse!
To steal from Butch Cassidy, "Don't sugar coat it Kid, give it to her straight." Thanks Scott. In a perverse way, it's exactly
what I wanted to hear.
AndyB, ( and all other posters) Muchas gracias for taking the time and trouble to reply. I'd take remedial/palliative action within my budget,
were I in UK. However, I'm somewhat limited in my options being based here.(Mind you, we've got a great pool and and a spare
apartment).
Thank goodness for this forum and folk like you.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 04:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Absolutely *NOTHING* at all wrong or unusual with anything you've observed, said or are doing. All is well.
If anything consitutes a 'problem' for you going forward, you need to fit a car engined powerplant, the ultimate 'fix' being a
nice new Espace...
Don't worry, get used to the noise, revs and the sheer joy of a bike engined car. Undercutting the gear set will help engagement, something to
do next time you've got the engine in bits. Flatshifters/quickshifters/whatever are great when the revs are high, not so good otherwise (some
like the Translogic can be programmed not to be active below certain revs in certain gears). Finding neutral will never be easy.....
By the way, if you've got a reverse gearbox in the prop line then getting rid of that will help with some of the noise, backlash and clunk.
Removing it now will just pre-empt the removal of it later, or when it decides to do the act for you. I am **assuming** here that you've got a
prop and not a chain (MK Indy/Midi).
Finally............BOOK A TRACK DAY...... you'll love the car a lot after that. That Espace won't get a second thought.
And very finally... try a bike too... a (now) cheap GSXR1000 K1-4 will teach you lot. The rest of the planet will appear to be stationary!
My oh My! (Sad Cafe track). Thankyou for a splendid post.
Espace? Bleaughhh!
I tracked my Lotus 340-R a half dozen times in UK prior to moving out here. (Had it 10 months from new).
My intention was to get Danny K to take me on the track to give me the low-down about driving a BEC. (circumstances precluded me from 'trying
before buying.' Once cheap flights resume, it's my intention to get back to UK and get a couple of track days booked.
My track guru at Brands in my Lotus Elise (prior to the 340) was Perry Mcarthy, so I've seen what a talented driver can do with a modest car.
You are right, I have a reverse fitted.
At 63 years of age a bike is a no-no. (Just ask SWMBO).
Many thanks again for your post. Bob.
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scootz
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 04:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bobinspain
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm afraid that's one of the downsides to BEC ownership Bob... anything other than full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode is a bit of a
pain in the arse!
To steal from Butch Cassidy, "Don't sugar coat it Kid, give it to her straight."..../quote]
But when you ARE in full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode... 
It's Evolution Baby!
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 04:28 PM |
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Thank fcuk I'm not the only old arse (61) blasting around in one of these things, took up scuba diving at 59 now thats an expensive pastime.
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Chippy
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 04:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bobinspain
At 63 years of age a bike is a no-no. (Just ask SWMBO).
Bob.
Oh Dear! Oh dear! at 72 I still enjoy my Harley, although the mileage done is a lot less than it used to be, (suffer from numb bum syndrom), after
about 100 miles. Cheers Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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bobinspain
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 05:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
quote:
Originally posted by bobinspain
At 63 years of age a bike is a no-no. (Just ask SWMBO).
Bob.
Oh Dear! Oh dear! at 72 I still enjoy my Harley, although the mileage done is a lot less than it used to be, (suffer from numb bum syndrom), after
about 100 miles. Cheers Ray
Ray,
The reason I bought a BEC is thanks to UK bureacracy. Their jobsworth attitude prevented me from coming back to UK to do my bike licence in my
late 50s, (5 yrs ago).
It was my intention to do the Harley course, and then buy a bike after it to drive it home here to sunny Spain. Nope!
Because I'm resident in Spain (and despite having held a UK DVLA licence for 35 yrs) I MUST do a bike test here in Spain. Imagine the language
difficulties?
DVLA were unmoved by common sense arguments, like what if I applied for a UK provisional? Or, "do you realise I'm trying to be as safe a
bike rider as possible, and you're preventing me from doing so"? All fell on deaf ears and they effectively told me to poke off.
In the end, I bought a quad, but that didn't scratch my itch. Toyed with the idea of a Can-Am, but that's neither fish nor fowl, hence the
'pigeon catcher.'
Power to your elbow my man.
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T66
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 05:47 PM |
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Depressed with all this talk of Spain
Real tomatoes, real peppers, fantastic wine, everything still shuts on a Sunday.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 07:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by T66
Depressed with all this talk of Spain
Real tomatoes, real peppers, fantastic wine, everything still shuts on a Sunday.
Check out Alcossebre beach hotel weather on the website.
I did my apprenticeship in Lancashire, so don't feel guilty enjoying this: 16c today, (but it was still nippy on the quad----on the way to the
pub, of course). Didn't feel much on the way back.
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 07:36 PM |
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I only urged the bike thing to get you acquainted with noise, revs, gearchanges and all that goes with it.
Stupidly quick bikes are now available 2nd hand for the price of a (far more) 2nd hand shopping trolley. Nothing will keep up with a bike. Once you
get on one, the whole world out there is just stationary, everything is in the way. It really is quite a buzz.... lovely sunny day here in Link
Onshire today, just too many speed cameras to really enjoy it. Too much enforcement, but also far too many Sunday drivers out to kill, cripple,
putting you in the grave or wheelchair.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 19/2/12 at 08:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
I only urged the bike thing to get you acquainted with noise, revs, gearchanges and all that goes with it.
Stupidly quick bikes are now available 2nd hand for the price of a (far more) 2nd hand shopping trolley. Nothing will keep up with a bike. Once you
get on one, the whole world out there is just stationary, everything is in the way. It really is quite a buzz.... lovely sunny day here in Link
Onshire today, just too many speed cameras to really enjoy it. Too much enforcement, but also far too many Sunday drivers out to kill, cripple,
putting you in the grave or wheelchair.
Again m_m, good post.
I was at RAFC Cranwel in 1980 and planted my Morgan +8 into the soil en route from a flat place to another flat place. Occupational hazard I guess?
I'm enjoying my first acquaintance with my new toy.
Previous toys I've owned like the Lotus Esprit, Elise and 340-R were in a different league in terms of acceleration. Slouches compared to the
MK.
As you say, I need to be taught how to drive it. Danny at MK offered to show me, but flights and other considerations meant I couldn't get back
to UK before taking delivery of the car.
I'm being rather careful so far, as I realise the car could bite. Even 8,000 rpm seems surreal, and the engines not quite on the cam. 
[Edited on 20/2/12 by bobinspain]
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bobinspain
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 09:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
Hi Bob
a few things might help, firstly you really do need to be using a resilient tube propshaft, if the prop is a solid steel affair the lack of a cush
drive will lead to premature gearbox and diff wear/ failure. The slack you refer to is typical with a dog box, basically the land that the dogs locate
in are larger than the dog to give a bigger target for the dog to aim at, otherwise finding a gear would be almost impossible.
Second thing - fit a simple overide switch to the flatshifter and run with bypassed for town work, the shifter will perform nicely when being driven
hard but round town when the car is not "taut" they can be a hindrance. Whenever we install them we fit a 3 way stainless toggle switch -
on/off/on. In on position one the power to the coils is fed through flatshifter, in off position the vehicle is immobilised and in on position two the
power is fed direct to coils bypassing the flatshifter.
I always switch the flatshifter out round town as the combination of a relatively slow change, clutch and ignition cut makes the car real lumpy, then
when blasting on main highways or race tracks simply switch it back in.
Hope that helps
best regards
Andy
Gonna try the Flatshifter-bypass Andy.
Thanks for the input.
u2u sent.
Regards, Bob.
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 10:05 AM |
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8,000 RPM is really only when things get going....
Most circuit noise tests at 3/4 throttle static will be in this territory.
The most 'fun' (and suprisingly competitive) powerplant I tried was the race-built 750cc.... simply nothing under 11K...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQG-3VSMUUI&list=UUyFWzcAohQlXMs-nutECxEw&index=14&feature=plpp_video
Drive this and the Hayabusa sounds and feels quite car-like.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 02:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
8,000 RPM is really only when things get going....
Most circuit noise tests at 3/4 throttle static will be in this territory.
The most 'fun' (and suprisingly competitive) powerplant I tried was the race-built 750cc.... simply nothing under 11K...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQG-3VSMUUI&list=UUyFWzcAohQlXMs-nutECxEw&index=14&feature=plpp_video
Drive this and the Hayabusa sounds and feels quite car-like.
The triple downshift one minute in is slick. I presume that's clutched, or have you a Flatshifter Expert fitted?
MK said that although the F/s Pro says clutchless downshifts are possible, they are not recommended.
(This is like learning to drive by correspondence course).
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SJL
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| posted on 20/2/12 at 10:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
8,000 RPM is really only when things get going....
Most circuit noise tests at 3/4 throttle static will be in this territory.
The most 'fun' (and suprisingly competitive) powerplant I tried was the race-built 750cc.... simply nothing under 11K...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQG-3VSMUUI&list=UUyFWzcAohQlXMs-nutECxEw&index=14&feature=plpp_video
Drive this and the Hayabusa sounds and feels quite car-like.
Great video you were certainly on it
Bob double check you have a TRT prop fitted to the rear section that will make a huge difference to the gear change quality if its not got one. My
custom prop didn't have one and it was like being kicked in the small of your back. It got corrected very quickly.
I have a Flatshifter on mine and can drive it normally without it cutting the coils it could be the strain sensor at the gearbox end is setup too
sensitively. You can test it stationary with the ignition on by listening to the beeps.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 21/2/12 at 08:41 AM |
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SJL
u2u sent.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 24/2/12 at 09:10 AM |
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Just for info and a sitrep:
Andy (AB) has been fabulously helpful, (to the extent of supplying me with a F/S bypass, 'on the house' to give it a try). Wow!
SJL (Steve) is a mine of information and like Andy, has been giving of his time to share it with me. The fact that Westfield supply a
torque-resilient-tube prop as standard with a BEC, (allied to AB's recommendation to fit one) speaks volumes.
I'm going to fit the no-cost (F/S bypass) option and give it a whirl. If unsuccessful, then I'll further explore the TRT prop route. (cost
and getting one out here).
One way or the other, I'll give it my best shot to cure the 'BEC shunting' and be able to drive around our port area (speed
restriction 40kph) without the transmission aurally warning pedestrians of my impending arrival. Anyway, I don't know the Spanish for,
"It's a BEC. They all do that!"
Addendum. Just spoken to Graham and John at Flatshifter. Both ultra-helpful and friendly. They concur with Andy, that for in-town use, bypassing the
F/S makes sense.
[Edited on 24/2/12 by bobinspain]
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