Westy1994
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 05:17 PM |
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Emissions test for Q plated cars, or is it?.
Hi.
I took my car for an MOT today, and although it passed, I was left a bit confused.
During the test the chap attempted to test the emissions with his meter, I said politely this was not required as it was a Q plated car - to which he
said, that's the first I have heard of that and VOSA has nothing about Q plated cars, according to him.
Anyway, back at home and looking at the VOSA site, they have a PDF of the current manual, Edition 17 published in February of this year , this
admittedly has no mention of Q plates but does give the following
VOSA PDF Link
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PETROL AND GAS POWERED VEHICLES
Vehicles to be tested
In-use exhaust emissions testing is applied to all petrol and gas-powered vehicles
with four or more wheels.
The test does not apply to vehicles fitted with 2-stroke engines.
The following types of vehicle will be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
(Visual Test):
Wankel rotary engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987.
All kit-cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998.
1.1 Types of test
The emissions test to which a vehicle is subject will depend upon its date of first use
(i.e. date of registration or date of manufacture if used abroad before first registration
in the UK) as follows:
For vehicles first used before 1 August 1975 a visual test will be applied.
For vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1975 a metered test will be applied.
On 1 January 1996 a new test was introduced for petrol fuelled passenger cars fitted
with advanced emissions control systems such as three way catalytic converters.
The test was extended to include large petrol fuelled passenger cars and petrol
fuelled light goods vehicles from 1 August 1997.
_____
So the test as I see and read that is that no matter what reg you are on ( and it was home built) , if it was first used before the 1st August 1998 ,
it does not need a metered test just a visual one .
Am I reading that correctly?.
The guy at the MOT place could not get the nozzle up far enough to test the car and passed it anyway.
My car was first registed for the road in 1994 , has a 1975 Xflow in it and is on a Q plate.
Rich.
[Edited on 26/6/12 by Westy1994]
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deltron63
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 05:46 PM |
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visual only on my Q plate
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 05:58 PM |
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If the V5 does not have the emissions limits on it and it's a Q plate then it should be visible smoke only.
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Westy1994
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 06:11 PM |
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The fact of it being a Q plate seems no longer applicable if I am reading that VOSA thing right?
Maybe they once had a ruling on Q plates and it has now just recently changed ?.
If you read that VOSA PDF you will not find any mention of Q plated cars, just dates of registration of being used on the road.
[Edited on 26/6/12 by Westy1994]
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asn163
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 06:17 PM |
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I think that the important sentence is:
"The test procedures described in this booklet are included solely as a guide; they do
not form part of the Regulations. Detailed test procedures are described in the:
MOT Inspection Manual, Private Passenger and Light Commercial Vehicle
Testing
HGV Inspection Manual and PSV Inspection Manual"
If you look at the MOT Testers manual:
http://mottesters.co.uk/files/special%20notices/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf
you get:
"Q plated vehicles are to be treated as being first used before 1 August 1975 for emissions purposes."
i.e. looks like it should be smoke only for Q plates.
HTH
Simon
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Westy1994
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 06:23 PM |
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Thanks Simon, I have just emailed VOSA anyway, as that document does clearly state the Q plated regs, however that was written in Jan 2012, and the
one I posted was from February, have they changed it, we don't know do we?.
Despite all this I passed anyway, but wanted some clarification on the current rules, this may help other folks out there..
Rich.
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BenB
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 07:33 PM |
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It doesn't matter what the book says the computer on my Q plate car demands they do emissions so that's what they do. The book may so no
but the computer says yes 
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 07:59 PM |
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If you car has been through SVA or IVA then the emissions standards should appear on the V5, whether or not you have been assigned a Q plate. These
are the limits that the MOT test center retrieve from the DVLA when they enter your reg. number. If these limits are not available then it should be
a visible smoke test only since the age of the vehicle is indeterminate. It seems like quite a loot of SVA'd cars don't have these limits
on the database.
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chillis
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 09:16 PM |
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[
If you look at the MOT Testers manual:
http://mottesters.co.uk/files/special%20notices/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf
you get:
"Q plated vehicles are to be treated as being first used before 1 August 1975 for emissions purposes."
i.e. looks like it should be smoke only for Q plates.
HTH
Simon
No Did you read it!
Section 7.3 page six "Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1st August 1998 (S reg) are required to obtain Single Vehicle
Approval and should be tested on the limits stated on the log book/registration document"
Therefore Q plate or not if its first used on or after 01/08/1998 the it will be tested to the emissions provided on the reg doc OR the default non
cat of 3.5%Co 1200ppm HC if nothing is stated on the log book.
Pre 01/08/1998 Q plate only to be treated as pre 1975 ie visual smoke.
So the plate letter means diddly squat as the OP's tester correctly stated as the emissions is related to first use and that applies to ALL cars
not just kit cars.
Visible smoke only is hard to get these days as the MOT testers are conditioned to test all cars for emissions as so few cars they test will not be
required to be tested for emissions. Even more so as visible smoke only cars will soon find restrictions of use in many towns when LEZ's are
rolled out across the country.
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Westy1994
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| posted on 28/6/12 at 10:56 AM |
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Well, this is very confusing, despite me asking some very exacting questions, all I got back was this.
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Thank you for your email enquiry dated 26th June 2012, concerning your
vehicle.
Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be
treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be
considered as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975. For all other
testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January
1971.
I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have
any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Kind Regards
Rebecca
Customer Service Centre
VOSA Operations Directorate
Tel: 0300 123 9000
------------
Needless to say I have indeed contacted them again, no mention of the 1998 bit at all in the above, I think it's safe to say that my MOT tester
got it wrong when he attempted to test my car with his meter the other day, but I would like something from VOSA that gives me the definitive answer,
instead of all the various manuals stating differing things.
If I hear back from VOSA I will post it here.
Cheers
Rich.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 28/6/12 at 11:07 AM |
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I've just had contact from VOSA on an engine-age related matter. In that email it was written that before july 31st 95 there's a non-cat
emissions test, after there's a cat test.
What I take from this and other's experience is that any new vehicle undergoing IVA will have the more strict cat/no-cat tests done at IVA based
on age, and this will appear in the V5 when registered (regardless of age related plate or Q). If it's a Q from way-back-when then you
won't have had to undergo the testing for the IVA/SVA and so you won't have any emissions levels noted on the V5, so you get visible smoke
only.
It's simple really, check the V5 - if you have emissions levels noted there then you need the test.
[Edited on 28/6/12 by coyoteboy]
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Westy1994
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| posted on 28/6/12 at 11:26 AM |
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Yeah, see what I mean all these dates come into these messages, yet when I asked a fairly simple question to VOSA all you get is an extremely vague
response.
Like most folks I suspect, I heard about the visual only test from posts on all the different forums on the net, after a while you read that many of
them it has to be true, yet my MOT guy said he had never heard of anything to do with Q plates and was going to do his metered test wether I liked it
or not.
So , in an attempt to avoid yet another argument with the MOT station next year, I would like something in writing from VOSA, I can then print that
out and show the bloke when he tries to stick his tube up my tail pipe...............
Rich
Oh, and another thing, have you seen the new MOT certificates?, supposed to be cost saving. I wonder if that saving is passed down to the end user
--- No I didn't think so....
[Edited on 28/6/12 by Westy1994]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 28/6/12 at 12:34 PM |
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Without seeing what your questions were for the email response from VOSA it's hard to tell but I'd say the emissions document trumps all,
but the MOT tester will only have their manual as the difinitive guide for them and anything you produce could be made up/old/rubbish so they
won't listen to you. It's always best to agree this sort of thing beforehand when booking the appointment if there's any doubt so
you can do the research and argue beforehand.
I think the problem here is that the Q plate does not have special meaning, the emissions works from dates and ages, the reg number means diddly
squat.
Problem is that the IVA and the MOT manual conflict. The current MOT manual:
http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doitonline/bl/mottestingmanualsandguides/mottestingmanualsandguides.htm
Does indeed say Q plate should be treated as visible emissions only. But the IVA demands age-related emissions. I'm baffled too now.
[Edited on 28/6/12 by coyoteboy]
[Edited on 28/6/12 by coyoteboy]
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Westy1994
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| posted on 28/6/12 at 12:51 PM |
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My first email to VOSA read
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I took my Westfield KIt Car for an MOT today, however during the test the chap attempted to carry out an emissions test to it, I said this was not
required but he was adamant that it was, so I would like some up to date information in this matter please, as I was always under the impression that
a Q plated car was exempt from the metered test and was tested on visual smoke only.
My car is a Westfield kitcar, on a Q plate with a 1975 Ford Crossflow engine, the car itself was first registered for the road in 1994.
Thank you for any help you can give me. If you need details of the testing station, I can supply these.
-------
So as you can see, the response I got back was vague to say the least.
I think the tester was somewhat annoyed at being told how to do his job by some kitcar owning geek, and was going to do the test anyway, as it worked
out his equipment failed on him, but should he have passed the car with him adamant that a test was required ?, or did he really know it wasn't
needed and was just doing it for spite?
According to my V5 , the emissions section is all blank, now if the MOT station do not have this information at test time, they should have. No point
in having 50% of the information on the car that you are testing.....
I agree, a Q plate would on the face of it would be irrelevant, and dates should be used, but I refer back to the response that I got from VOSA this
morning - they clearly acknowledge the Q plate issue, so I have now asked them again for clarification of this.
I had the same issue many years ago with an old Triumph, it seems not all MOT stations are geared up to handle old and home built cars, and as
mentioned above, it is probably not very often that they have to test such cars and carry out emissions tests regardless.
Anyway, see what VOSA have to say now, I just hate spouting the regs to folks who should know already.
Regarding your edit, yes see what I mean, this is what is confusing me also, hence why I am emailing VOSA all the time, we need some real black and
white answers, not all this stuff spead over 3 manuals which leads to threads like this one all over the internet.
[Edited on 28/6/12 by Westy1994]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 28/6/12 at 07:51 PM |
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I've just posed the same question to them as my car will be a Q without doubt, but will have a '96 engine (actually probably 95 but no
proof so assumed 96). Let's see what they respond with.
[Edited on 28/6/12 by coyoteboy]
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Westy1994
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| posted on 28/6/12 at 08:35 PM |
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Yes, will be interesting to see if they give the same answer to both of us.
It also has an impact if I ever wish to update the engine as well, although I love the xflow for the sound alone, but spare parts won't last
forever.
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Westy1994
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| posted on 29/6/12 at 11:33 AM |
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OK, well I have had a slightly better response, I actually sent the same email twice over two days, in an attempt to get two different folks to reply
- seems to have worked...
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Thank you for your email enquiry dated 27th June 2012 concerning your MOT.
As this is a Q plate kit car then you are correct in that it will require a
visual check only. Please see the following extracts below taken directly
from the MOT testing manual relating to this:
(Found in the introduction section)
"Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be
treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be
considered as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975"
(Embedded image moved to file: pic05537.jpg)(Embedded image moved to file:
pic21538.jpg)
I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have
any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Kind Regards
Mark J Evans
Customer Service Centre
VOSA Operations Directorate
Tel: 0300 123 9000
-------
So my MOT tester was indeed wrong in trying to test the car after all.
It would seem, and the manuals do say this, ( but with all the different manuals available to view it's hard to pick out the bits that actually
apply to one instance) that if you are on a Q plate it is seen to be first used before 1/8/1975 , HOWEVER, if your Q plated car has an engine that was
first used after 1/8/1998 you are bound by the emissions that were given for that particular engine and should be stated on the V5 as someone else has
already said.
So Coyote, with your 95/96 engine on a Q plate, it would therefore be deemed a visual test only.
There maybe folks who knew this already, but my MOT tester didn't ...............
At least now I can print that last VOSA email out and take it with me next year.
All we need to do now is educate the MOT testing stations............
Rich
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PeteS2k
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| posted on 29/6/12 at 12:53 PM |
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I'm still within the 3 years from IVA (May 2010), so haven't had to face the MOT emissions faff yet - next year...
I'm on a Q plate, with a 2003 engine. Despite all suggestions I've seen that it should have, my V5 has no emissions data whatsover. Both
the original green/blue one, and the new red one I received this week.
Looks like I could finish up being on a visible smoke, or full-blown cat emissions test, or some point in between, depending on which page of which
manual my tester reads!
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Westy1994
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| posted on 29/6/12 at 02:02 PM |
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Not having a modern engine does seem to have its benefits it would appear, but I would sent an email to VOSA well before you need an MOT and get this
sorted out beforehand, then take the evidence to your MOT guy, that way you will avoid any confusion on the day.
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Westy1994
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 04:38 PM |
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Well, following on from the other day, I sent VOSA yet another email outlining that they may wish to remind MOT stations of the current regs on our
cars, they have replied thus...
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Thank you for your email enquiry dated 29th June, 2012 concerning an MOT.
I am sorry that you have received bad service with regards to your MOT.
All testers have access to the MOT Inspection Manual and should follow the
Inspection criteria. If you wish pass on the details of the MOT garage
concerned we can forward this to the Regional Intelligence Unit for
further investigation.
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What do all think, should I report them, or just let it lie and either change stations in the future or get someone else at the station to test it? I
have previously had reasonable service from this station and they normally test my tintop as well, it's just I have never had the bloke that did
the Westy before....
Rich
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loggyboy
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 05:08 PM |
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Defo report, the manual is clear and even if only one tester or station learn its a positive outcome.
Mistral Motorsport
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