jonabonospen
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| posted on 8/9/12 at 09:51 PM |
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BEC v CEC v V8
I know there are many discussions on the subject of BEC or CEC, but what I want to know is what are the main pro's and con's of each of
the three engine types; BEC, CEC, and V8? Not a "well I've got a BEC and its the best" conversation, but just a factual bit of info
like; which has best power to weight, handling, torque, etc?
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coozer
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| posted on 8/9/12 at 10:03 PM |
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Track = BEC
Fast road = CEC
Cruising + fast road = V8
Depends what type of car you fancy.....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 8/9/12 at 10:08 PM |
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A V8 is a CEC (unless there are V8 bikes in production?).
Depends entirely on what you are after. BEC will give excellent power/weight, it comes with it's own sequential box and it is undoubtedly a fine
choice for a track car or fun road car. You will need to fit some kind of reversing system (either separate gearbox or electric) to get the car
through IVA.
V8's tend to be fairly heavy (even modern all alloy ones) and the power delivery mean lots of low RPM grunt. Personaly I don't think they
are the most appropriate engine for 7 style cars, but I'm sure many will disagree (unless it's the high revving V8 used in the Arial Atom
designed around bike engines, very expensive though).
A 2.0L 4 pot car engine (e.g. Zetec, Duratec) from your average family saloon is cheap, you have reverse built into the gearbox and it will give
pretty good performance, economy and have fine road manners. It won't have anything like the urgency of a BEC though. However, a tuned car
engine can approach or better the power from the bike engine, though it will have more weight overall and tuning is not cheap past the most basic
levels.
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jonabonospen
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| posted on 8/9/12 at 10:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
A V8 is a CEC (unless there are V8 bikes in production?).
 Yeah I was thinking of car V8's. I was just trying to seperate them from the more common zetec and duratec type car engined cars as a V8 is a
totally different beast really.
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RK
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| posted on 8/9/12 at 11:34 PM |
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Phil? Are you there?
OK, I'll go first for my team: CEC heavier, not really what the lightweight sportscar design had in mind considering the size of car engines
these days. But, CEC is a simpler build, although you need two to get your engines in and out, generally. Hard to find RWD engine and transmisssion
combos, unless you go MX5 or BMW (heavier). Come with reverse gear, an IVA requirement, I believe. I could go on.
V8 - quite big, not that much power for the size. There are exceptions.
Essentially, I am repeating what has already been said above.
[Edited on 8/9/12 by RK]
[Edited on 8/9/12 by RK]
[Edited on 9/9/12 by RK]
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Norton91
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 07:02 AM |
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Money no object these people http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php/parts-a-engines
I have a gen 2 Hyabusa it is brilliant just the gear box alone is worth it all, push button from http://www.flatshifter.com/flat-shifter-max/
I have my eye on the 1600cc engine 80kgs including box 260 bhp 145ft lbs total car weight 530 including fuel, water,oil,toolkit heater..........
I currently have 200bhp and about 110 ft lbs driverable in 5th at 25 mph can pull it away in 3rd from stationary top speed 140mph
Nigel
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snapper
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 08:26 AM |
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I think torque is an important consideration one constantly overlooked
The above post conciders this, since driving turbo deisels I conciders it more.
The BEC is a great drive but you can get tired of continual balls out high revs, lazy V8 torque is a good easy drive but I like the noise and the
revs, for me a high reving CEC does it.
Perhaps a turbo or supercharger in the future
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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franky
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 08:44 AM |
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a nice 300+bhp N/A car engine, best of everything
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jonabonospen
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 09:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Norton91
Money no object these people http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php/parts-a-engines
I have a gen 2 Hyabusa it is brilliant just the gear box alone is worth it all, push button from http://www.flatshifter.com/flat-shifter-max/
I have my eye on the 1600cc engine 80kgs including box 260 bhp 145ft lbs total car weight 530 including fuel, water,oil,toolkit heater..........
I currently have 200bhp and about 110 ft lbs driverable in 5th at 25 mph can pull it away in 3rd from stationary top speed 140mph
Nigel
I have heard of Holeshot racing before. In fact I was watching one of (if not more perhaps) of their bikes running up at Elvington airfield a couple
of weeks ago in the wheelie world record event, although I think they were just involved in the time drag strip runs and not the wheelies. The Busa he
had there was AWESOME!!
But I tell ya what........ I never realised they were THAT expensive 
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Hellfire
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 10:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RK
Phil? Are you there?
Yep, I'm here.  Don't really have anything to add though..... I reckon Mike has covered it
Phil
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dlatch
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 10:38 AM |
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firstly
Norton91 your fury is stunning!!
secondly
Bec or Cec can only be decided by yourself have a ride or drive of both then decide 
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wilkingj
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 11:20 AM |
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I have a Rover V8 in my Viento.
Physically its about the right sized V8 for the Viento, although the Viento will easily take larger V8's eg Small Block 5.7L Chevy.
Mine is:
3.5L (I avoided 3.9 and above due to the porus block problems that can occur).
Viper Hurricane Cam (3-6k rpm powerband)
Webber 500 4 barrel carb
Mallory electronic Dizzy.
Mild porting on the heads.
I built a V8, as I have wanted a V8 sportscar since I was 17 (42 years ago!) So I built one.
I just love the V8 sound.
On a run to Stoneleigh / Newark ie open road at a steady 70 I get 26Mpg, which I think is Brill for a V8.
Around the country roads, ie more gearchanges and slow / fast. I recon about 20mpg.
Foot HARD down driving (track style stuff) probably a lot less!
I see it simple as this is my TOY... and I have to accept the MPG.
Its a bit like driving a Land Rover (I had 5 of them over a span of 30+ years). Its what you want, so you accept that everytime you take it for a
drive, you are being financially raped when you pull into a petrol station Mostly I just dont look at the bill... Pay it, and forget it. Then
go and enjoy your drive!
The thing I like about my RV8, is its light for a V8. It delivers enough power and torque to make the driving comfortable both to the style and to the
ears and still give very good performance (ie no 12,000 RPM nest of wasps in your ears - although that can still be be fun)
The Viento has a very large underbonnet area, and everything is easily get-attable, even with a V8 in it. IMHO A 4 pot job looks a bit lost in
there.
A V8 in a Viento looks about right.
Now... In Hindsight...
I should probably have gone for a straight 6 job. Either a Nissan Skyline (any of them), or a BMW straight 6, possibly a M series.
Why??
A straight 6 will give you almost the same sound style and range as the V8 (ie nice audio track).
Both of the above engines are quick anyway... and can be FAR more powerful than ANY rover V8. Unless you have extremely deep pockets getting more than
250BHP from a RV8 becomes a VERY expensive job.
They are newer, and nicer, and the BMW is quite abundant, and already R/W-Drive, with good gearboxes.
Luego also have done a BMW in the Viento, and it works well in that chassis.
If you want either a V8 or straight 6, then seriously consider a larger chassis, like the Haynes, or the Mc Sorley +442, as you will need the extra
space.
Dont dismiss a Straight 6 instead of a V8.
Also its less exhaust manifold work than a V8!
Hope this is of some use in your decision making.
I'm thinking of selling mine, as I want a Motorhome, to replace my caravan!
Cheers
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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franky
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 12:13 PM |
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Just to add to the above, a bmw m3 3.2 will fit in a normal size car as its fairly compact, the airbox etc makes it look larger than it is.
You'll get 35mpg on a run, be able to use the standard ecu, they'll rev to 8000rpm and make 300+bhp all day long.
Oh you can get them will all bits needed to run for £1500 or so.
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wilkingj
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 12:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
Just to add to the above, a bmw m3 3.2 will fit in a normal size car as its fairly compact, the airbox etc makes it look larger than it is.
You'll get 35mpg on a run, be able to use the standard ecu, they'll rev to 8000rpm and make 300+bhp all day long.
Oh you can get them will all bits needed to run for £1500 or so.
I think this illustrates my point nicely.
What I built, I am very pleased with.
However, I could have done it better, and probably for no more money than I spent in the first place (a little over £8k).
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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rodgling
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 02:33 PM |
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The BMW straight six is good in that it's cheap (a 328 + ecu etc is about £500), sounds amazing, plenty powerful, easily available, good RWD
gearbox, plenty of tuning options, etc. On the other hand it's long, tall, and heavyish, although you save a bit of weight over a v8 by not
needing two exhausts. The torque-to-weight of an M3 would be hard to beat without a turbo.
But if I was doing it again, I'd be tempted by a lightweight CEC, probably either K-series or duratec, and try to keep the car as light as
possible. Mind you, my "if I was doing it again" engine changes all the time and I'm certainly very happy with the M3 :-)
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sdh2903
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 03:46 PM |
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Or what about new school m3 and you get the v8 noise as well!
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=110940085211
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franky
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| posted on 9/9/12 at 05:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rodgling
The BMW straight six is good in that it's cheap (a 328 + ecu etc is about £500), sounds amazing, plenty powerful, easily available, good RWD
gearbox, plenty of tuning options, etc. On the other hand it's long, tall, and heavyish, although you save a bit of weight over a v8 by not
needing two exhausts. The torque-to-weight of an M3 would be hard to beat without a turbo.
But if I was doing it again, I'd be tempted by a lightweight CEC, probably either K-series or duratec, and try to keep the car as light as
possible. Mind you, my "if I was doing it again" engine changes all the time and I'm certainly very happy with the M3 :-)
for what its worth I wouldn't build another with an m3, its just too much of an engine IMO. I still think its the best value for money around.
The 4.0v8 is 280bhp and about 70kg lighter, that might get my vote
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