McLannahan
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 05:32 PM |
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Leaking new toilet and sink woes!
Hi all.
I used a builder/handyman to help update our cloakroom but he's made a fairly bad job of it all. He's now been back twice to fix the
issues but the problems remain and I've lost patience and faith in his ability.
1- the new toilet leaks from the U bend at the rear. This is generally after a flush to it is clean water but there's enough to make a large
puddle that flows out from underneath the pan.
2- the new basin also leaks. This appears to be from the waste/trap?
3- he put a skree (spelling?) on the floor to cover up the old tiles. He laid the new vinyl on top of this but didn't stick it down. Should I
stick it down? The Henry easily lifts the floor if we attempt to out the end or hose near it.
4. The new pan isn't fastened to the floor. He said it was best to stick it down but with it still leaking I'm not too sure?!
It is a real shame and used the last of our savings to get this done. We're left with a cloakroom we daren't use and when we do it leaks
and I'm a little anxious about someone pulling the pan over if they sit down too quickly!
Can anyone advise what I'm best to do to fix these issues?
Thanks everyone.
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macc man
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 05:45 PM |
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I feel your pain, I spend an awful lot of my time repairing other installers shoddy work. It seems you are another victim of a poor installation. What
greaves me most is that with a little bit of thought disasters like this could be easily avoided. Best to cut your losses and get a good installer to
finish the job.
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Smoking Frog
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 05:46 PM |
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I would consider this the be the main problem the other ones are more easily fixed.
quote:
1- the new toilet leaks from the U bend at the rear. This is generally after a flush to it is clean water but there's enough to make a large
puddle that flows out from underneath the pan.
Sounds like it could be a alignment problem between pan and soil pipe. If this cannot be rectified maybe a flexible connector will work.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 05:58 PM |
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As above you need a flexible connector or an offset boss, the problem is probably because the tiles raise the connector just enough to be out of
alignment. This is fairly simple diy fix.
However you should check the leak isn't between the cistern and pan. With a close coupled cistern ie one the is mounted directly on the pan it
is easy to get the big rubber gasket between the cistern and pan out of position. Again not rocket science to fix.
Most toilets on tiled floors are stuck down, however sticking it to the vinyl won't work.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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TheGiantTribble
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 06:01 PM |
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Yikes that don't sound good at all.
1. The toilet leaking could just be the pan connector not pushed on properly, some like multikwik want to force themselves off unless completely on
properly, or it could be the pan is cracked at the back, or slightly misshapen preventing a seal.
2. This could be either the nuts not tightened properly or cross threaded, or the sealing rubber/washers not seated properly or missing.
Both of these could potentially be bodged repaired with LSX, bit like silicon (smells like it) but doesn't mind the wet stuff, infact IIRC water
helps it go off. But a proper fix would be pref where water is concerned.
3 Screed possibly?
4. Yes pans should be fixed down properly, a lot of force goes through a pan when people are a wiggling around doing their thing.
I wonder if he hasn't fixed through his screed for fear of cracking said screed assuming it was a screed for number 3.
That said I have seen pans fixed with silicon, no nails, grips like sh*t etc with no problems.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 06:24 PM |
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House I,m in had a leaky toilet, it happened on a flush, but was where the cistern fitted to the base, there is a big donut seal that had failed which
gave the appearance of a dodgy U bend joint.
To fix I bedded the seal in silicon, make sure you also seal where the bolts drop down to hold both parts together.
HTH regards Mark
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 07:12 PM |
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The leak being clean water make me think it is the sponge donut seal. They can be a PITA and I have had issus for no real reason, though I suspect
poor mouldings on the pan/cistern. A bead of silicone on each side sorts it every time.
I expect he put a screed down, or more likely a levelling compound. No reason not to drill and screw down.
Basin, same thing. Often a bit of silicone is needed to get a decent seal.
Most issues appear on b+q or whatever stuff. Proper shanks etc is far more reliable.
And don't get me started on screwfix/tool station cheap traps and so on. I always get branded stuff after too many bad experiences.
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McLannahan
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 07:13 PM |
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Thanks everyone.
Yes screed, that's the one! 
TGT...I think you're right, it was a thin layer of screed and that would make sense. Could I not drill a small hole through the screed into the
tile below and fix to that?
I'm a bit anxious using silicon or LSX in case I cock it up and it's still leaks but this time it's stuck in position!
SF....The builder actually dug out the floor to move the soil pipe backwards. In his defence he made a nice job of that and initially the toilet
didn't leak. When he reassembled it all though with the vinyl in place the trouble began! So all the pipes and seals are new, so it all seems to
line up nicely and looks straight.
BT....I don't think it's leaking between there, but you're right, it's a system like you describe. It doesn't leak when
it sits there, just after a flush and seems to stop once it's lost about a saucer full. I'm guessing once the level in the u bend bit
drops low enough not to flow back?
Thanks again everyone!
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 07:13 PM |
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The leak being clean water make me think it is the sponge donut seal. They can be a PITA and I have had issus for no real reason, though I suspect
poor mouldings on the pan/cistern. A bead of silicone on each side sorts it every time.
I expect he put a screed down, or more likely a levelling compound. No reason not to drill and screw down.
Basin, same thing. Often a bit of silicone is needed to get a decent seal.
Most issues appear on b+q or whatever stuff. Proper shanks etc is far more reliable.
And don't get me started on screwfix/tool station cheap traps and so on. I always get branded stuff after too many bad experiences.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 07:16 PM |
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I think number 1 is being caused by number 4, or at least made worse. Those joints aren't meant to be moved so the seal isn't getting time
to work. As mentioned as soon as you sit down the toilet will move. I reinforced the floor and bolted the toilet down really solidly, then fixed the
drainage. In my case, a simple offset push fit coupling was enough to solve all leaks, and it's been there for about a decade from memory.
For number 2 (as in the sink problem not back to toilet issues!), we had to bin the supplied drain and buy a proper one from Screwfix. You can tell
when the fixings are good quality, they are usually metal rather than plastic and fit together so much better.
The vinyl ideally should be stretched slightly and stuck down. If it's not stuck down, it will stretch just by being walked on and you'll
end up with ripples. Our kitchen vinyl fitters used up two cans of spray adhesive, and the room had to be ventilated for hours. But it lasted ages.
Edit: I've just noticed the flush leak being clean water. Yes, there is a donut between pan and cistern, and again we had to bin the supplied
donut and buy another one. This will also be affected by a moving pan, so again get that sorted first.
[Edited on 1/4/14 by Slimy38]
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McLannahan
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 07:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
The leak being clean water make me think it is the sponge donut seal. They can be a PITA and I have had issus for no real reason, though I suspect
poor mouldings on the pan/cistern. A bead of silicone on each side sorts it every time.
I expect he put a screed down, or more likely a levelling compound. No reason not to drill and screw down.
Basin, same thing. Often a bit of silicone is needed to get a decent seal.
Most issues appear on b+q or whatever stuff. Proper shanks etc is far more reliable.
And don't get me started on screwfix/tool station cheap traps and so on. I always get branded stuff after too many bad experiences.
This sounds spot on CH....he did even lecture me on buying BQ (I did have some vouchers) so I let him source it and I think he bought a Howdens?! Said
it was much better quality that BQ but to be honest I've never seen such a cheap and nasty seat, it's microns thick!?
Can I put the bead on and then push the toilet home? How then would I screw it down?
Thanks CH!
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McLannahan
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 07:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I think number 1 is being caused by number 4, or at least made worse. Those joints aren't meant to be moved so the seal isn't getting time
to work. As mentioned as soon as you sit down the toilet will move. I reinforced the floor and bolted the toilet down really solidly, then fixed the
drainage. In my case, a simple offset push fit coupling was enough to solve all leaks, and it's been there for about a decade from memory.
For number 2 (as in the sink problem not back to toilet issues!), we had to bin the supplied drain and buy a proper one from Screwfix. You can tell
when the fixings are good quality, they are usually metal rather than plastic and fit together so much better.
The vinyl ideally should be stretched slightly and stuck down. If it's not stuck down, it will stretch just by being walked on and you'll
end up with ripples. Our kitchen vinyl fitters used up two cans of spray adhesive, and the room had to be ventilated for hours. But it lasted ages.
Edit: I've just noticed the flush leak being clean water. Yes, there is a donut between pan and cistern, and again we had to bin the supplied
donut and buy another one. This will also be affected by a moving pan, so again get that sorted first.
[Edited on 1/4/14 by Slimy38]
Thanks S38, that's great. It is already rippled and looks a bit ship. I'll get some glue. Would I be ok to use a steam cleaner on the
floor if I glued it down?
I think you're all right, probably an element of his skill but more importantly cheap fittings!
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TheGiantTribble
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 07:53 PM |
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The advantage to LSX is that once it's dried if you need to break a joint it's designed to break nice and easy.
As for drilling a fixing I assume it's a solid floor beneath so drill through screed, tile, and into the floor. It is
much better to do this very slowly than try doing it quick and bog (pun intended) it up.
And as others have suggested the doughnut washer/ring will fail if the pan is free to move a bit.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 1/4/14 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
Thanks S38, that's great. It is already rippled and looks a bit ship. I'll get some glue. Would I be ok to use a steam cleaner on the
floor if I glued it down?
I think it should be fine if you don't use a water based adhesive. But then again, I'm not sure a water based adhesive would work with
screed and vinyl anyway, and judging by the smell of our kitchen the guy used a solvent based adhesive!
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