velocitykendal
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| posted on 8/9/14 at 06:53 PM |
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Second-hand Jenvey ITBs?
Quick question:
What's the average price for a second-hand set of 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies on a Zetec manifold? Like these...
Cheers.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 8/9/14 at 07:19 PM |
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I would think finding used ones would be quite tricky so they won't be cheap......
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Jenko
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| posted on 8/9/14 at 07:50 PM |
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I've seen them go on ebay for around £400.
Gsxr tb's are around 80 quid...
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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scootz
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| posted on 8/9/14 at 07:53 PM |
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It really depends on what they come with... from a bare set of bodies through to a plug-in package (manifold, linkage, horns, TPS, fuel rail,
injectors, backing plate, filter) then you're looking for prices between £400-700.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 8/9/14 at 07:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenko
Gsxr tb's are around 80 quid...
True, but you'll have spent a good bit more than that by the time you've fabricated or bought all the bits to make it work... and the
Jenveys will look / perform better!
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ugg10
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| posted on 8/9/14 at 08:58 PM |
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If you can get away with 42mm tbs then have a look at the triumph rs sprint 955i ones. Ok you need two sets to make up a four but they are similar to
the jenvey direct to head ones with an oval outlet, I picked up two sets incl post for under £75. I am using these on a zetec se and the ports are a
very good match and only need a flat adaptor plate to fit (laser cut for less than £50). Pics and dinensions on here www.anglia1968.weebly.com if you
are interested.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Jenko
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by Jenko
Gsxr tb's are around 80 quid...
True, but you'll have spent a good bit more than that by the time you've fabricated or bought all the bits to make it work... and the
Jenveys will look / perform better!
I guess it depends what engine they are going on.....I paid 80 for mine, they didn't need spacing, came with tps, injectors, fuel rail, throttle
linkage, and work just as well as jenveys.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenko
and work just as well as jenveys.
On full throttle they will produce the same power, on part throttle Bike TBs are more difficult to map and on just off idle they are a real problem.
Jenveys (and AT Power etc) are designed for cars...Bike TBs are designed for Bikes (go figure). Jenveys will be much more progressive and drive like
a production car.
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snapper
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:36 AM |
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I don't get the above post
Throttle body is just a tube with butterfly's, the injectors can be swapped for car ones and the ECU can be mapped so what bits on
Jenvey's are different to bike bodies?
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Mr C
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
I don't get the above post
Throttle body is just a tube with butterfly's, the injectors can be swapped for car ones and the ECU can be mapped so what bits on
Jenvey's are different to bike bodies?
In my limited experience, bike bodies are quite different to car bodies, more like individual carbs than bodies with springs and slides rather than
butterflies and needing some vacum to work properly and bolted to a higher revving engine. All a bit of a compromise on a car setup. Good for a
"budget setup but you can't beat the real thing
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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Jenko
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 07:05 AM |
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I think you are thinking of bike carbs, not bike Throttle bodies...These work in exactly the same way as car TB's.
As for bike bodies being difficult to set up and run...simply not true...IF....you use sensible sized ones. If you go too big (and this applies for
Jenveys / AT / etc), there is a real issue just off idle where a tiny bit of throttle will open the butterfly, but as it's a large butterfly, it
lets in too much air making the car difficult to drive.
Most of the horror stories with bike tbs (I read Dave walkers slot in PPC mag), are with ill concived throttle linkages, but done correctly they work
just fine.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 08:38 AM |
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Got to agree with Jenko, the Triumph Tbs I have are just a tube with a butterfly, injector holes and vacuum tube taps. The trick is getting the right
size, as said before, too big is bad for low load running, too small chokes top end. Also setting up the balance and getting them all working as one
is essential.
The other thing some people do not sort out is the throttle pedal action, the segement that operates the bodies is smaller on bike carbs than say a
webber carb or OEM Single TB so the distance between the throttle pedal connection and the pivot on the pedal need to be reduced so you get full
travel of the pedal for full operation of the TB. Keep it like a carb/OEM single TB set up and it will be full open at half the travel and so becomes
very twitchy at part throttle.
Compare the pics below to the Jenvey link - not a huge amount of difference for about 1/10th of the price.
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/direct-to-head-throttle-bodies/jenvey-dynamics/ford-sigma-direct-to-head-42mm-dbfs-42
Inlet at approx 42mm
Outlet shape/size
Side view
Roughly positioned, will have them mounted in the next couple of weeks and will post outcome (simple adaptor plate laser cut)
Overlay of inlet gasket, note TBs not spaced, the small adjustment can easily be taken up in fitting (approx 1-2mm out at the moment)
[Edited on 9/9/14 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 09:27 AM |
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Amazing that Jenvey are still in business then lol....
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mcerd1
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 10:25 AM |
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^^^
the main difference is that Jenveys are designed as aftermarket parts to fit a wide range of engines with relative ease and lots of help in making
sure you pick the right size - but you pay for that
bike TB's are obviously designed (or at least specified) for 1 specific engine - so you need to carefully pick a suitable one from a limited
range of second hand parts and do more work and a lot of fiddling to adapt them for a different engine - but if you get all the bits right (linkage,
manifold, trumpets, airfilter, etc.....) it should give you the same results - although most folk probably stop fiddling with it when its 'close
enough'
btw look at the price of brand new bike TB's - some make Jenveys look cheap 
its just the fact that they are easily available from scrap bikes that makes them cheap
also its not like Jenvey have a totally bespoke TB for every application, for the most part they just adapt the one that's the closest to make
it easier to fit on the most common engines. the less common ones just need to use/make manifolds to fit the more generic ones (a bit like bike
TB's  )
same applies to most of the other parts too or even the car as a whole...
think of it like this - you could buy a kit that's easy to assemble and will get through an IVA with ease (e.g. a caterham) - but it'll
cost you the best part of £15k minimum
or you could build your own from scratch/donor bits with the same performance for maybe as little as 1/6th of the money ! (or 1/60th if you believe
uncle Ron ) but you'd need to accept that you'll have to do a lot more work yourself...
[Edited on 9/9/2014 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 9/9/2014 by mcerd1]
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Jenko
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 10:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Amazing that Jenvey are still in business then lol....
Jenvey build a fantastic product, and I'm in no way suggesting that the jenveys are no good. If I had the cash, I would have gone for Jenvey
DTH's for my puma engine. Point being, for the price of the Jenveys, I could by Bike TB's AND an OMEX 600 to run them.........Agree, you
do have to put the time in with the bike TB's, but done well you can get good results.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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velocitykendal
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 11:25 AM |
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I don't recall asking about bike TBs! 
Back to my question of value...
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
It really depends on what they come with... from a bare set of bodies through to a plug-in package (manifold, linkage, horns, TPS, fuel rail,
injectors, backing plate, filter) then you're looking for prices between £400-700.
So assuming they come with all those stated bits you'd expect to pay £700 for them? Does anyone agree/disagree?
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Jenko
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 12:09 PM |
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Well I started the ball rolling with a guess of 400 plus...Scootz has said 400 - 700. I don't think there is any such thing as an exact price
for a second hand item.....but 400 - 700 is probably the range you are looking at.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:00 PM |
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Sorry for diverting the thread but Bike TBs for mild tune engines can be made to work and are often more available than Jenveys and as discussed can
be significantly cheaper.
Also bear in mind that you will need a budget of between £250 and £500 to geh them mapped once up and ruinning and another £600-1000 for an ecu and
loom/sensors - so budget for Jenvey TB's, ECU and stuff and mapping should be around the £1500-2000.
Back on topic -
Two sets on Ebay at the moment - both direct to head so do not need a manifold, none suitable for a Zetec as far as I can see -
Vauxhall XE 45's - BIN £500 - Throttle bodies c20xe jenveys
Duratec 54's with 8 injector set up (serious engine needed to make use of these) £700 starting (these sold for £930 at the end of July) -
Jenvey duratec throttle bodies 54mm direct to head 8 injectors
Using the "completed" button an ebay -
Generic 42mm TB's only £300 - Jenvey Throttle Bodies THP42i
DCOE 45 style only - £395 - jenvey Throttle Bodies 45&apos's
Full Zetec setup £725 - Jenvey ITB&apos's on ST170 Manifold Focus Throttle Bodies inc.rail,injectors,TPS
So - quite a bit of evidence that the range £400 (bare TB's with no fiments) to £700 (for bolt on and go setup) is not far off but given there
are only three suitable (arguably 2 if you need 45's) sold in the last three months on ebay you may have a hard time searching for them.
However, if you can wait for a couple of months for the end of the racing season then there may be some come upon the rally/race sites, maybe worth
looking at buing a full engine transplant and then flogging off the bit you do not need to reciver some cash, this is if you already have an engine to
put them on.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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mcerd1
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by velocitykendal
So assuming they come with all those stated bits you'd expect to pay £700 for them? Does anyone agree/disagree?
scootz will be right - this is exactly the sort of shinny stuff he buys all the time
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
Scootz will be right - this is exactly the sort of shiny stuff he buys all the time
Usually for £700... and then sell at £400!
Seriously though, you'll be doing well to get a complete Jenvey unit (manifold, filter, injectors, TPS, velocity stacks, fuel rail, linkage) for
less than £650.
It's Evolution Baby!
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velocitykendal
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:16 PM |
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Thanks for your input guys, that's really helpful. Time to raid the piggy bank...
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big_wasa
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by velocitykendal
I don't recall asking about bike TBs!
So assuming they come with all those stated bits you'd expect to pay £700 for them? Does anyone agree/disagree?
Assuming your selling ? it depends on how you sell them as well.
But I would say 500~700
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:40 PM |
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I bought a set of Jenveys from this very forum for my duratec, and they cost me £400, and came with a TPS.
*THEN* I needed a new manifold, so £100
*THEN* I had to buy twin cables, and a fuel rail, so about £120 on top.
*THEN* I had to resize my injectors to get that right - £80 from ebay.
*THEN* I realised I needed a sane way of blocking the injector ports in the head. I'm thinking of having them machined and a threadded bung
made.
So, a full setup will need more cash, but for me, they're worth it. Don't get me wrong here - I knew full well what I also needed to
complete the fitment.
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by velocitykendal
So assuming they come with all those stated bits you'd expect to pay £700 for them? Does anyone agree/disagree?
scootz will be right - this is exactly the sort of shinny stuff he buys all the time
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:52 PM |
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When I converted to injection I looked for ages for a set of used Jenveys and came up with a total blank. Not a single soul wanting to upgrade to a
bigger size.
Only needed the throttle bodies since I already had the injectors, manifold, fuel rail, TPS, ram pipes, airfilters.
Eventually bit the bullet and phoned Jenvey direct and got a great deal of a slightly shop soiled set.
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Grimsdale
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
I realised I needed a sane way of blocking the injector ports in the head. I'm thinking of having them machined and a threadded bung
made.
How about machining a short dummy injector and pop it in place with an o-ring?
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