f27
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| posted on 12/4/15 at 08:44 AM |
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Blackbird Engine exploded... Again... Recommend me a different bike engine!
Hi,
Yesterday my Blackbird engine threw a rod in spectacular fashion. Its the second engine that's happened to in 2 years, so now I'm thinking
about swapping to a different engine.
The blackbird was 1100cc and I want something that's going to be equally quick or quicker.
I guess its going to be a big job as I'll have to get the whole wiring, exhaust etc changed. I wont be doing it myself but will need to find a
garage to do it for me (near Northumberland if anyone has any recommendations).
I like the idea of being able to supercharge a bike engine (although I may just be being silly) so is there any engine that would be easier / cheaper
to supercharge than others?
What can you recommend?! I'm open to advice and stories of why you chose the engine you have.
Thanks in advance.
[Edited on 12/4/15 by f27]
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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CosKev3
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| posted on 12/4/15 at 08:59 AM |
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There was a supercharged engine on ebay this last week, complete set up.
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Andy B
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| posted on 12/4/15 at 09:06 AM |
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Hi - thought it might be worth a two pronged attack here - firstly the reasoning behind why they let go and secondly a bit of advice on a route to go
down.
When the blackbird engines came out they were a big temptation for the sidecar crews and a number of us moved to them only to find that they went bang
way too often to justify the good performance when they worked. Theories abounded as usual ranging from surge to lubrication system design and
others.
The bottom line is, some engines taken away from their original design application just don't make good donors for sidecars and cars. In my
opinion the bird engine is one of these. The main issue is it has a much bigger, more open crankcase design with less internal webbing than the
fireblade engine. We felt that the engine was prone to flex when not securely nailed into its original very stiff bike frame. To this end a number of
crews tried mounting them without using the bottom point so that the engine effectively hung from the top mounts. In this configuration any twist did
not act on the crankcase split line and as such there wasn't the nip on the main bearings that caused the failures. Low and behold the motors
started to last a lot longer - however they still went bang way too often and so were pretty much shunned.
As for a way forward the earlier carburated blade is a much better bet and will make for a relatively cheap conversion - you will have a better car
for it as well. We have converted two westfields from blackbird to carbed blade and both owners were amazed at what a better package they had.
Hope that helps - if you want more info just call us on 01449 736633
best regards
Andy
[Edited on 12/4/15 by Andy B]
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CosKev3
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| posted on 12/4/15 at 09:06 AM |
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131481666299?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2661&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I would think you will be in for a large bill for paying a garage to convert your car to a different engine,as it will involve a new cradle and lower
mounts cutting off the chassis and new ones fabricating and welding in.
Your average garage won't even give you a quote imo to take the job on.
Ideally you want to find someone local to you that is a member on here willing to take on the job 
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bi22le
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| posted on 12/4/15 at 07:04 PM |
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A friend of mine has a zx10r engine for sale. Good history.
The zx10r seem to be popular with the guys that have fitted them and its left field.
In case this helps.
Good luck with the rebuild, shame it had not happened on your terms.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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OliilO
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| posted on 12/4/15 at 07:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
There was a supercharged engine on ebay this last week, complete set up.
Wish I'd seen that; I'd have been quite interested in taking a look.
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f27
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 08:26 AM |
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Thanks for the advice, comments and sympathy!!
After having had a few days to calm down a bit, I think going supercharged would be asking for problems when all I really need is reliability.
Seems I have two options, either Fireblade (2008 onwards) Or ZZR1400.
Has anyone got any advice as to either of these engines? I know the Fireblade would be bulletproof and probably slightly faster than the blackbird
was, but I kind of like the idea of the ZZR as it would be a lot faster; but I don't know much about those engines.
Thanks
[Edited on 14/4/15 by f27]
[Edited on 14/4/15 by f27]
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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Andy B
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 08:52 AM |
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Fireblade is tried tested developed and pretty much a banker engine - ZZR1400 not a bad package but slightly more agricultural in power delivery.
Don't be fooled by the cubic capacity - this is definitely a case of "less is more" and the two engines try and crack the same
walnut in different fashions - the blade with its screaming power delivery, high rpm and minimal weight is like a very precise toffee hammer being
used to chip away at things whereas the bigger heavier ZZR1400 is like a sledge hammer being used to smash things with a wall of torque
In standard format I would go the blade route every time and wouldn't put money on the ZZR being the faster install.
Sorry for all the analogies and comparisons but that's pretty much how it is.
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f27
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 09:08 AM |
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Thanks Andy. That's an interesting way of looking at it.
Would you not think the ZZR with its wall of torque would be a better engine and be the faster package?
[Edited on 14/4/15 by f27]
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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daniel mason
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 10:00 AM |
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Definately not!
Look at the results from longton and districts 3 sisters sprint last weekend!
Terry everall and tim nunn both running rr blades! Not too shabby when the it comes to setting rapid times eh!
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f27
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 10:11 AM |
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I only have experience of the blackbird engine so have no clue about other engines.
This morning I have spoken to about 6 people well known in the industry and even one gives a different opinion as to which way would be best.
I have been told the ZZR gearbox can be weak, that the Fireblade wouldn't have enough torque and would feel slow compared to the old blackbird
etc etc
It's a hard decision as I haven't experienced either one. I spoke to a guy who already has a ZZR Westfield and he loves it...
Argh!!
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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Andy B
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 10:16 AM |
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We have never knocked a box out of the zzr1400 and we have them in lots of different ki including slicks wings and aero cars. If you ever get in a car
powered by the new blade and think its weak I would be amazed. In stock trim it would destroy your old blackbird motor hands down.
If you would like to experience CBR1000rr power give us a call and I will get you out in one of the On Track rental cars
regards
Andy
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f27
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 10:47 AM |
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Thanks Andy, I appreciate all your advice. Trouble is that I'm at the wrong end of the country (Northumberland near the borders). Your name
keeps coming up when I speak to people (Yorkshire engines etc) but I'll have to go with someone closer to home. Been speaking to a few places
including Scottish Kit Car Centre who seemed to know their stuff.
Just got to weigh up the pros and cons of each engine. Cost doesn't seem to be much different when talking about a whole engine transplant but
it's going to be down to which one is the most fun and will be reliable over time.
[Edited on 14/4/15 by f27]
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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daniel mason
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 12:24 PM |
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Speak with Damian at Daytuner Harrogate! Not a million miles away. He will also be able to carry out any work you require doing. He's currently
go my force at the moment which is running a k6 gsxr 1000 in the back!
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f27
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 12:32 PM |
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Already spoken to him and he can't do the fabrication work, he's more for setting up the engine and tuning it.
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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kj
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 12:36 PM |
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Speak to Teegray he can fabricate mounts for you.
Dave Marsden on FB runs a blade and a few other have different engines in the North East.
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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f27
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 12:47 PM |
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Thanks, yeah I know Tee, and most of the seveners in the north east. I was out with a couple of them when the engine went 
I definitely want to just drop off at a garage, have it all done in a week or two then pick it up and be able to use it. I'm sick of buggering
about with it!
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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kj
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| posted on 14/4/15 at 12:55 PM |
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Yep know that feeling after just installing a Yamaha unit and the gearbox decided to give up, so changed it all to ZX9.
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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CosKev3
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| posted on 15/4/15 at 09:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
Fireblade is tried tested developed and pretty much a banker engine - ZZR1400 not a bad package but slightly more agricultural in power delivery.
Don't be fooled by the cubic capacity - this is definitely a case of "less is more" and the two engines try and crack the same
walnut in different fashions - the blade with its screaming power delivery, high rpm and minimal weight is like a very precise toffee hammer being
used to chip away at things whereas the bigger heavier ZZR1400 is like a sledge hammer being used to smash things with a wall of torque
In standard format I would go the blade route every time and wouldn't put money on the ZZR being the faster install.
Sorry for all the analogies and comparisons but that's pretty much how it is.
Excellent simple way to describe it!
Good that someone with your experience/knowledge takes the time to put proper replies on here
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Autoflock Motorsport
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| posted on 15/4/15 at 12:24 PM |
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Ive sourced a company who is supplying a supercharger for my gsxr k4 100 engine, its a cracking powerplant but just lacking in torque which is where
the supercharger will come in. Hopeing the whole conversion should be within the £2500 mark with a result of 110 ft lb and 200 bhp (hoping)
sounds like a large outlay to get wghat other engines do as standard but these k4 engines are cheap ish to buy than the others so if it fails its a
case of un bolt and bolt on due to the simplicity of it.
Not sure this is much help :-(
Kind regards
Raj
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=183445
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