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Author: Subject: Midlana build...
big_wasa

posted on 18/5/15 at 05:53 PM Reply With Quote
Love that cad model so I've nicked it
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coozer

posted on 18/5/15 at 07:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Love that cad model so I've nicked it


Well, I knocked it as well so your welcome





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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coozer

posted on 10/6/15 at 02:13 PM Reply With Quote
Getting a bit carried away but could not resist this....



Upright is in the vice with some penetrating fluid and I keep topping it up but the shaft is still stuck fast





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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CorseChris

posted on 10/6/15 at 02:18 PM Reply With Quote
Mmmmmm.....shiny.......


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coozer

posted on 22/6/15 at 02:11 PM Reply With Quote
Would like to thank BigFaceDave for his help, here it is, arrived this morning



Whats the best way to weigh this lot? been looking at some force gauges but just for a quick one off measure its not worth buying one....





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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CorseChris

posted on 22/6/15 at 02:39 PM Reply With Quote
That looks tidy Steve.
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big_wasa

posted on 22/6/15 at 02:48 PM Reply With Quote
The good old mtx75.

They are so solid no one bothers to sell them used

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coozer

posted on 22/6/15 at 03:07 PM Reply With Quote
Is it a mtx75?

I had no idea what box it is. Is there any upgrades for it, close ratio, LSD etc.

Or, is it worth trying to get hold of the 6 speed st170 box??





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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big_wasa

posted on 22/6/15 at 04:11 PM Reply With Quote
Yeh it's an mtx75 it's the mk2 box with hydraulic clutch.

Good solid box, bigger than the 6 speed but lighter. Yes you can get lsd's and the focus rs mk1 comes as standard with one as well as an ap clutch.
The 6 speed is a getrag box ( also fitted to the mini ) and has a dual mass flywheel with a non traditional ford first motion shaft patern.

Stick with what you have. I've gone Getrag 6 speed and the clutch is going to be a pain in the ass. The clutch and fly in mine are shot and barley upto the 170bhp of the st170. plus side is there are lots of cheap 6 speed boxes about starting at 25 so I will work somthing out.

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dai1983

posted on 27/8/15 at 09:37 PM Reply With Quote
Hello,

I've recently bought two Ford Pumas for 270! Ones going back on the road but I fancy a bit of fun with the other. Initially I thought about prepping it for road rallies but I've always wanted to build a kit car or similar.

I think mid engined using a FWD drivetrain is the way to go. You guys obviously have the book but I'm still looking up various builds on the Internet and will probably change my mind again tomorrow. Anyway I have a couple of questions:

-what nose cone and bonnet are you planning on using?
- is there room for movement with the design? With this I mean would it be simple to alter the chassis so I could fit Puma uprights, steering column, rack and even the unaltered driveshafts? I'm guessing that the answer will be no but it would be usuefull to use most of my cheap donor!

As you can tell I'm pretty green with chassis modifications but have a decent workshop and am keen to have a project on the go!

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Adamirish

posted on 27/8/15 at 10:09 PM Reply With Quote
Re st170 clutch. When I changed the clutch and flywheel in mine I looked into a solid flywheel. TTV racing make them around the same price as the Dmf. The clutch plate everyone uses is the standard redtop f20? Clutch with the st170 pressure plate and standard st170 CSC. Supposedly really wakes the engine up, the DMF weighs a tonne!! As an ST170 owner I can confirm, the standard clutch is sh*te. As already said, barely up to the job. The getrag gearing would be great for a kit, not so good for a relatively heavy road car though.

Good luck with the build, I shall be watching with interest.





MK Indy 1700 Xflow

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coozer

posted on 27/8/15 at 10:14 PM Reply With Quote
Midlana is based on a MX5 as its already rwd for the uprights, its also already on double wishbone suspension. That way there's hardly any mods to fit the uprights.

If you want to use the Puma uprights they will need modifying to get rid of the strut, then redesign the wishbones to hold it and you still going to need front uprights. Combine this with new driveshafts to suit the width your no better off using the Mazda bits where Kurt the writer has already done all the hard work for you.

Although you can use the Puma to donate everything else, engine trans, wiring, ecu, steering column, rack etc.

You can get the book from the lulu bookstore. They do have offers on now and then so you can get the price down. I paid about 32 for mine.

Nice to see someone else keen on mid engine using fwd trans. Just shout up if you need any more advise.

Steve





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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coozer

posted on 27/8/15 at 10:22 PM Reply With Quote
And regarding the nose cone and bonnet... Midlana is around 4 inches wider at the front of the chassis so a custom modified one will need making.

For the original builder they are off the shelf in the USA but not here.

Front bonnet only covers the brake pedal so a bit of Ali bent to shape will do, the process of making it is detailed in the book.

Rear engine cover is up to the builder as the back end design is open to artistic licence!

All that stuff is a long way down the line..

I've got another engine to pick up this weekend&#128512;





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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JC

posted on 28/8/15 at 06:39 AM Reply With Quote
According to some engine comparison stuff in an old kit car mag, Zetec se weighs 85kg....certainly I was faffing with an engine crane with mine when me and a mate said sod it and lifted it, inc gearbox......it was easy!

So to weigh it, a decent set of bathroom scales methinks!

(Watching with interest as I want to upgrade from my 1.25 engine one day...)

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CorseChris

posted on 28/8/15 at 08:16 AM Reply With Quote
Another vote for sticking with the book design as far as the suspension and steering goes. Anything is possible of course, but re-jigging the suspension geometry to work properly with totally different uprights is a lot of work to get right. No reason why you can't use the column out of the Puma along with many other donor parts, but stick with the MX-5 for uprights and rack to avoid LOTS of extra work. I've done geometry mods in the past on other kits, but it's fraught with issues.

FWIW, my build will be using everything possible from an Alfa 166 donor I have, but most definitely using the Mazda suspension parts.

Be good to have another on the go.

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dai1983

posted on 28/8/15 at 09:11 AM Reply With Quote
As I said I have a head full of projects so I need to decide which direction I want to take. I've been a member on here since 2004 for example! I also have better facilities than I did then too as I'm now a mechanic in the armed forces where I only had a single garage and no idea before.

Now you mention the MX5 being RWD I understand that this would be the best road to take. I'm currently reading through the build blog and also one for a 1.7 engined RIOT. I've also been looking at different engine choices such as the 2.0 and v6 duratecs. Since this will likely be locost in spirit I think I'm better off sticking with the smaller, lighter and cheaper 1.7/ib5 combination. I could hopefully try and retain the awesome standard Puma gear linkage. I've also rebuilt a 1.6 Se in the past and they are as you say light and also simple to work on.

Kirt says it weighs around 1500lbs which is over 600kg. I guess this is due in part to the engine, box and forced induction set up? Could a build of around say 550kg be achievable?

Im also guessing that 15 inch wheels with suitable tyres to retain the rolling radius could be used but what about narrower wheels?

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CorseChris

posted on 28/8/15 at 10:23 AM Reply With Quote
You could shave quite a lot of weight off by using thinner tubes than the book calls for. Some of the gauges are way up there compared to what we are used to over here. As an example, the book calls for 0.125" 1.5" square for the chassis bottom rails. That's just a fraction under 10swg!! I plan on using somewhat thinner stock myself, closer to 16swg. Then again, the bloaty great V6 I'm using won't help the weight.

Rim/tyre width - why not go narrower - 205 should be fine, even 195 wouldn't be daft. Just a case of picking the right rim offsets to suit and making up the arches to match. Probably the main hurdle is keeping the rolling radius up with a narrower tyre.

If you are adamant about using the Puma bits, you can always use 2 sets of front uprights. Honestly though, it's quite tight round the back end and adapting it to suit a different geometry might be a 'challenge'. That said, anything is possible of course.

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big_wasa

posted on 28/8/15 at 11:25 AM Reply With Quote
As above I also think the weight can be shaved down from the quoted 680 kg.

[Edited on 28/8/15 by big_wasa]

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dai1983

posted on 28/8/15 at 02:39 PM Reply With Quote
I think you are all correct when you say the chassis is best kept as Kurt designed it. Messing around with the chassis has stopped me trying to make a mx5/BMW Haynes as it seems like too much trouble. What's the difference in weight per m between the different metals? Do the ROP bars exceed the thickness required by the MSA?

If any one f you have build blogs elsewhere I would like to see them!

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CorseChris

posted on 28/8/15 at 03:05 PM Reply With Quote
I've not looked at the weights as such, just felt some of the materiel was a bit on the OTT side.

This might help:

http://www.parkersteel.co.uk/doc/BS/WeightChart.pdf

All this talk prompted me to revisit my shopping list and I've opted for 2mm cold formed for the main sections. Reckon that'll be plenty strong. CDS for the suspension links, ERW for the odds & sods.

For the ROP, I'm going to have a chap called Tom Wood do the material supply and bending. He does mail order and is pretty darn reasonable, so pick a material that satisfies the Scrutes and off you go. Getting the design certified would be quite another matter though! I've also approached Pilkington about a screen. Again, surprisingly reasonable to supply a proper IVA friendly E marked piece of laminated glass. They were talking around 120 which I thought was excellent.

The best place for builds is probably Kurts own site really. I've grabbed loads of images from there already to help provide inspiration. I'm particularly impressed with the chap from Oz that is doing a wider version - his CAD work & renderings are superb.

My own 'build' hasn't got very far yet. Bought a 166 V6 donor for engine, box, steering column, switches, wiring etc etc, an Elise fuel tank (perfect fit), some hooky Aerocatches for the bonnet, a solid flywheel to replace the knackered DMF on the V6 and that's about it so far. I plan to finish stripping the 166, pick up a suitably cheap MX-5 and strip that, prep all the donor parts ready to get busy then get stuck into the build proper next year.

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dai1983

posted on 28/8/15 at 04:58 PM Reply With Quote
Looking briefly at that metal chart, 1 inch seems to be half the weight of 1.5?

With these type of cars I've always fancied just a fly screen over a full windscreen and wipers etc!

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coozer

posted on 29/8/15 at 03:34 PM Reply With Quote
The knarrs I just cannot help meself...

Picked this up this afternoon...



And, just in case you think Im taking the piss....











1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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slingshot2000

posted on 29/8/15 at 05:22 PM Reply With Quote
You won't have room, in that garage of yours, to take a wee if you keep filling it up with motors and gearboxes

Have you finished your Jago yet, or has it been moved to one side ? ?

Regards
Jon

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coozer

posted on 29/8/15 at 05:29 PM Reply With Quote
As you can see the chassis is on its side and axles all there to trip me up!

V8 needs rebuilding first!!

Need some electric bits and ecu to see if I can get one of them running!





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

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big_wasa

posted on 29/8/15 at 07:35 PM Reply With Quote
haha that's like my place,

1 x zetec blacktop

1 x st170

1 x Rv8

1 x lt77

1 x Getrag 6 speed

And boxes and boxes of parts

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