kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 07:18 AM |
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bec engine upgrade
Hi guys,
Since my last post about cars for sale in stoneleigh a couple of the lads really got me thinking about sticking a 14b r1 lump in a already road legal
bec. My budget is strict unfortunately and what I'm trying to work out is total cost for build but im struggling and need your help. I have a 9k
budget. I think I can get a half decent mk with a blade engine or similar for 6k. Sell the engine and possibly claim back 500 quid max leaving me 3.5k
for new installation. Now I could probably pick up a 14b from malc for 2k obviously just engine wiring and ecu. Now I'm no fabricator and mk
don't sell a cradle for this engine so they'll have to have the car in to fit engine to chassis approx 150 quid. From there I'm
guessing ill need a prop adapter, the prop lengthened/shortened and exhaust manifold? After a brief chat with mk yesterday this should cost me in the
region of around 500-750 quid. I believe that would be all the work that I can't achieve. I've then got to rewire it, re cool it and re
fuel it, sort an exhaust and some form of dash unit or original clocks.
Am i right in saying that I've covered all areas or can someone point out a massive flaw in my plan and maybe list some costs of items to tell
me whether I'm under over my budget.
Any help is always appreciated 
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Doctor Derek Doctors
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 07:32 AM |
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I wouldn't count on needing a new prop and adaptor, if the car comes with an older R1 engine the adaptor will likely fit (all Honda ones are the
same so I bet the same is true for Yamaha) and adaptor a decent prop should have sliding section so you should be able to position the engine to fit
the prop more or less where the old engine was. If both are the case that's £400 saved, if you need a prop adaptor that's still £350 saved
by keeping the same prop. In terms of cooling if its already a BEC and has a decent cooling system I doubt it will be much cost, mainly just hoses and
connectors.
Again if its already and R1 the exhaust may fit or only need some minor changes to go onto the new engine. I thinking fueling may be the main headache
especially if coming from a carb'd engine set-up.
If it was me I'd be looking for a car with an injection R1 engine to try to minimise work, also try some other fabricators, you might get the
cradle done for less.
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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tyrrell
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 07:59 AM |
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My dad is a fabricator, where in Kent are you ? Could easily make some mounts
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tyrrell
My dad is a fabricator, where in Kent are you ? Could easily make some mounts
The car will probably be based in orpington at my work but I live down in East malling. Thanks that's really helpful
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
I wouldn't count on needing a new prop and adaptor, if the car comes with an older R1 engine the adaptor will likely fit (all Honda ones are the
same so I bet the same is true for Yamaha) and adaptor a decent prop should have sliding section so you should be able to position the engine to fit
the prop more or less where the old engine was. If both are the case that's £400 saved, if you need a prop adaptor that's still £350 saved
by keeping the same prop. In terms of cooling if its already a BEC and has a decent cooling system I doubt it will be much cost, mainly just hoses and
connectors.
Again if its already and R1 the exhaust may fit or only need some minor changes to go onto the new engine. I thinking fueling may be the main headache
especially if coming from a carb'd engine set-up.
If it was me I'd be looking for a car with an injection R1 engine to try to minimise work, also try some other fabricators, you might get the
cradle done for less.
Trying to find a car I like that's injected r1 for 6k is a big ask
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:12 AM |
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Ebay item number - 331544430238
This fits the bill I think
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tyrrell
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:15 AM |
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Orpington is very close to me 5 mins away
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Doctor Derek Doctors
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kentmagpie
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
I wouldn't count on needing a new prop and adaptor, if the car comes with an older R1 engine the adaptor will likely fit (all Honda ones are the
same so I bet the same is true for Yamaha) and adaptor a decent prop should have sliding section so you should be able to position the engine to fit
the prop more or less where the old engine was. If both are the case that's £400 saved, if you need a prop adaptor that's still £350 saved
by keeping the same prop. In terms of cooling if its already a BEC and has a decent cooling system I doubt it will be much cost, mainly just hoses and
connectors.
Again if its already and R1 the exhaust may fit or only need some minor changes to go onto the new engine. I thinking fueling may be the main headache
especially if coming from a carb'd engine set-up.
If it was me I'd be looking for a car with an injection R1 engine to try to minimise work, also try some other fabricators, you might get the
cradle done for less.
Trying to find a car I like that's injected r1 for 6k is a big ask
Depends if you are in a rush or not I suppose, I would definitely check with someone like AB perfomrmace if the Prop Adaptor and Exahsut from any
other R1's will fit onto the flat plain R1 engine, if you know it does you know that you wont need to replace it so could spend some more money
on the base car.
As an engineer I can only recomend one tool to work out costs... Spreadsheet!
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tyrrell
Orpington is very close to me 5 mins away
Haha that's even more of a result
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
quote:
Originally posted by kentmagpie
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
I wouldn't count on needing a new prop and adaptor, if the car comes with an older R1 engine the adaptor will likely fit (all Honda ones are the
same so I bet the same is true for Yamaha) and adaptor a decent prop should have sliding section so you should be able to position the engine to fit
the prop more or less where the old engine was. If both are the case that's £400 saved, if you need a prop adaptor that's still £350 saved
by keeping the same prop. In terms of cooling if its already a BEC and has a decent cooling system I doubt it will be much cost, mainly just hoses and
connectors.
Again if its already and R1 the exhaust may fit or only need some minor changes to go onto the new engine. I thinking fueling may be the main headache
especially if coming from a carb'd engine set-up.
If it was me I'd be looking for a car with an injection R1 engine to try to minimise work, also try some other fabricators, you might get the
cradle done for less.
Trying to find a car I like that's injected r1 for 6k is a big ask
Depends if you are in a rush or not I suppose, I would definitely check with someone like AB perfomrmace if the Prop Adaptor and Exahsut from any
other R1's will fit onto the flat plain R1 engine, if you know it does you know that you wont need to replace it so could spend some more money
on the base car.
As an engineer I can only recomend one tool to work out costs... Spreadsheet!
Totally agree I'm trying to get a spreadsheet drawn up so that I eliminate all hidden nasties. I appreciate things will happen that I
don't forsee but trying to get an accurate cost to see if it's worth doing or not
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 11:17 AM |
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Oh man I was to late on that indy. Sold 
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kj
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 11:41 AM |
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Prop adaptor on here for a CBR 1000 cheap, most bikes are 13 splines
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 12:46 PM |
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What sump are you planning on using? And are you fitting power commander and mapping etc? There's another £1k gone!
I agree with the others and look for one with a fuel injected motor already in!
Phillip pearn is selling a STM on uphillracers and ebay which is under your budget for your donor car and there got the motor installed already and is
a very well sorted chassis! And a very quick car
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daniel mason
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 12:48 PM |
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http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/161694644127?nav=SEARCH
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 01:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
What sump are you planning on using? And are you fitting power commander and mapping etc? There's another £1k gone!
I agree with the others and look for one with a fuel injected motor already in!
Phillip pearn is selling a STM on uphillracers and ebay which is under your budget for your donor car and there got the motor installed already and is
a very well sorted chassis! And a very quick car
Im after a post 2009 14b engine. that's running a 2005 5vy lump. I love the noise of the crossplane crank makes and that's why I want to
put one in a car. I appreciate that's a nice car and its good money but Im pretty positive ill still need to modify it after ive dropped the
other engine in. Im quite sure that from 2009 upwards it was a complete new engine and design
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 01:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kentmagpie
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
What sump are you planning on using? And are you fitting power commander and mapping etc? There's another £1k gone!
I agree with the others and look for one with a fuel injected motor already in!
Phillip pearn is selling a STM on uphillracers and ebay which is under your budget for your donor car and there got the motor installed already and is
a very well sorted chassis! And a very quick car
Im after a post 2009 14b engine. that's running a 2005 5vy lump. I love the noise of the crossplane crank makes and that's why I want to
put one in a car. I appreciate that's a nice car and its good money but Im pretty positive ill still need to modify it after ive dropped the
other engine in. Im quite sure that from 2009 upwards it was a complete new engine and design
Malc at YE said that all the engines he sold have only used baffled sump tops. Obviously id have to budget in power comm 5 and a remap 
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daniel mason
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 01:23 PM |
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I'm sure I heard several horror stories regarding those motors! Possibly installation problems rather than any design flaws but as far as
I'm aware there are very very few race cars using these motors but several using the 04-06 motors.
But if you intend on doing it then anything is possible. The only thing to guarentee is it will take longer than expected and cost more than
expected
[Edited on 8/5/15 by daniel mason]
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 01:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
I'm sure I heard several horror stories regarding those motors! Possibly installation problems rather than any design flaws but as far as
I'm aware there are very very few race cars using these motors but several using the 04-06 motors.
But if you intend on doing it then anything is possible. The only thing to guarentee is it will take longer than expected and cost more than
expected
[Edited on 8/5/15 by daniel mason]
appreciate the advice hence why im hesitant to proceed as no one really knows a lot about them. I had an 06 r1 lump in my first bec and absolutely
loved it. It was bomb proof as well but I just want to move on now and try these late engines. Malc also that he is now starting to sell these lumps a
lot more as old r1 stocks are depleting. He said hes never heard of any issues and the grass track boys love em. Im in no rush so may just hold back
and see what happens. In the meantime ill keep my eyes peeled as something nice is bound to come up for sale soon 
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 06:52 PM |
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Mr bates has replied to my question regarding later r1 engines and it's not for good reading for me
Message:Hi
Sorry for late reply - we are monstrously busy at the mo and it has me running around like a loon
Re engine - personally I would definately not pursue this particular engine in fact Yamaha started to lose the plot when they got rid of the 20 valve
heads back in 2007. Since then most of the mods to models have made them more user friendly to the bikers and less and less relevant to the world of
bike engined cars. It was bad with the 2007 and 2008 engines - 28 major failures in a season is just hopeless and to be fair the cross plane may sound
nice but it's best left in a bike. As with anything if you want to leave the more popular route and do something different it is likely to be a
more costly route as you will be the one finding out the various weaknesses and figuring out solutions. To put this in perspective - it cost me over
ten grand in blown motors, dyno time and development to get the 2008 on blades sorted sump wise and a host of install parts to make them work well in
cars.
R1 wise we don't even do a baffle for one it is such an uncommon choice
Hope I haven't rained on your parade but believe in saying it as it is
Andy
Back to the drawing board. Or msybe wait a few years for people to figure out the best setup for this engine in a bec
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daniel mason
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 07:17 PM |
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The noise shouldn't sway your choice imo! I'd say performance over sound and the 04-06 motors offer rapid reliable performance. The later
blades even more so but at a cost!
The there's the busa which is a proven track/race package with dry sump and power depends on how deep your pockets are!
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 07:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
The noise shouldn't sway your choice imo! I'd say performance over sound and the 04-06 motors offer rapid reliable performance. The later
blades even more so but at a cost!
The there's the busa which is a proven track/race package with dry sump and power depends on how deep your pockets are!
Had the pleasure of owning a busa but a non dry sumped one. I never tracked it. Plus the car was badly setup and eventually sold it to another member
on hers. Did go mind. Just think I'll look for value for money now. 9k has got me alot of motor before so ill strike when the time is right
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 07:52 PM |
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Noise can make a big difference just imo. Check this out:
https://youtu.be/vOCTePKLJds
[img]http:// [/img]
[Edited on 8/5/15 by kentmagpie]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 07:57 PM |
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This was my old busa car. Sounds different to the MEV but I loved the noise of it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9mOcJ3fRVI8
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
This was my old busa car. Sounds different to the MEV but I loved the noise of it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9mOcJ3fRVI8
Awesome nice looking car as well. What was it? Have you only got track cars?
I've only owned 7 style cars all in my photo archive. A 2006 r1 mk indy in red, black mk indy busa and red/silver gbs zero gsxr k4. Loved em all
but just wanted a side step. May still go car engine forced induction style.
If that atomic was for sale now I'd by that all day long
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daniel mason
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| posted on 8/5/15 at 08:18 PM |
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There's a turbo Mazda mx5 roadrunner on pistonheads but it's track only! May be possible to Iva that?
Had many kits over the years but now competition cars. the blue one was a radical prosport, now I have a force single seat hillclimber!
You will get something more than decent for £9k
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