owelly
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 06:20 PM |
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Towing with an A-frame. Court case result!
Things I have learnt from my recent court case.......
I was towing an Omega on an un-braked A-frame with my Transit. The Omega had current tax and test and was insured by the owner. I was pulled by a
traffic officer who “always pulls over anything on an A-frame”. He reported me for using a trailer with defective brakes and using a vehicle with no
insurance.
The Dept of Transport ‘Factsheet’ https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/408927/a-frames-and-dollies.pdf relates
only to the construction and use regulations regarding trailers and towing. This means that the A-frames vehicle has to comply with all the same
requirements set out for trailers. ie. lights, reflectors/triangles, brakes, weights, etc.
If you’re towing with an A-frame, the towed vehicle must be road legal for the person towing it. This means that it has to have current tax, test and
be insured as if the person driving the towing vehicle was driving the towed vehicle! I had signed letters from the Secretary of State for the DoT,
and a letter from the DVLA confirming that what I had interpreted from the fact sheet was also their interpretation. ie. “When an "A"
frame is attached to a vehicle (e.g. a motor car) and towed by a motor vehicle (e.g. motorhome) we believe the "A" frame and car become a
single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer”. This would mean that the towing vehicles insurance would also cover the towed
vehicle. The Courts dismissed this entirely. The car I had on the A-frame was insured but not for me to drive. I was considered to ‘be in control of’
the towed vehicle, so I needed to be fully legal as if I was driving it. Result? Six penalty points and £741 worth of fines.
I also learnt that it may be possible to challenge the Court and take things further but the ‘no insurance charge’ is an absolute offence and there is
no defence. Challenging the result would have cost me thousands with no lawyer wanting to second-guess the outcome.....
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 06:28 PM |
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Sounds like a night of submarining would cheer you up old boy!
Failing that get the beer out!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 06:44 PM |
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That sucks
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 06:50 PM |
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Ouch. Doesn't your insurance cover you for driving a vehicle not owned by you third party with the owners permission?
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benchmark51
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 07:03 PM |
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I have a Transit camper, fully road legal and a towing frame to tow my locost again fully legal. So I take it that I am able to use my kit fully
legally as I am insured to drive both vehicles. If I want to tow another vehicle I would have to (a) insure the towed vehicle or (b) have an insured
driver sat in the towed vehicle?
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balidey
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 07:17 PM |
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I know its done and there is no come back, but how the hell can the courts simply dismiss something as crucial as that and then make their own
assumption about insurance on a vehicle you are not in.
Sorry to hear that.
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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ReMan
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 07:17 PM |
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That stinks, big time
My sympathies 
www.plusnine.co.uk
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 07:24 PM |
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Stinks BIG TIME !
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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Smoking Frog
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 07:50 PM |
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Unfortunately when it comes to right and wrong there seems very little leeway in cases like this, it's black or white. There is no sensibility.
Bad luck.
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myke pocock
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 08:21 PM |
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I have always been under the impression that when A framing a vehicle it has to be simply as a recovery of a broken down vehicle and then can only be
at 30mph. If not the vehicle being towed vehicle would be deemed a trailer and must have brakes which is why you used to be able to get A frames with
braking mechanisms that fitted from the frame to the brake peddle of the towed vehicle. I used to A frame my Skoda Estelle trials car but bought a
trailer as I didnt want to be caught out.
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owelly
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 08:37 PM |
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Benchmark: irrespective of the weight of the A-framed vehicle, it has to comply with the trailer regs. These state that if brakes are fitted, they
have to be operable. If the axles are more than 1m apart, you cannot use an inertia or overrun braking system. You'd be OK on the insurance
though!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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Irony
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| posted on 24/10/15 at 10:43 PM |
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Towing anything is a mine field legally. The rules are far too complex. So many people tow overweight it's unbelievable. I have been caught
out at work a few times. One of our lorries got pulled over by vosa and they weighed it. 75kg overweight. We sent a Discovery and box trailer to
offload some stock. Vosa impounded that for towing without a tachograph. We had two vehicles impounded!
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owelly
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| posted on 25/10/15 at 02:58 AM |
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The first few questions the Tc asked me were to find out who I was moving the car for. He suggested that if any part of what I was doing was for
reward or payment, then it was commercial. I knew what he was fishing for. He also quizzed me on the GVW of my Transit and the Omega, and what I
though the total train weight was. Thankfully, I knew. I didn't save me though.
And just to clarify: the A-frame I was using was like a Solomatic. Not to be confused with a towing dolly. Both methods are legl to use providing they
comply with all the regs. There is a dispensation for recovery vehicles and they can circumnavigate the regs if they are moving a broken down vehicle
to a safe place. Eg. They could be used to move a conked-out vehicle off a motorway but only as far as the first exit.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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BenB
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| posted on 25/10/15 at 08:42 AM |
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That does seem an odd result particularly the insurance bit. And especially when you see such plain stupid towing activity going on. Yesterday as a I
drove up the A40(M) to the M25 I saw in the space of 5 minutes two cars being towed. Okay the second one was a police car, with the blues on going
slowly down the hard shoulder. The first one however (unless plains clothes!!) was clearly not. In the middle lane for the entire time we were stuck
behind them going 50mph with a 5 foot tow strap. They did about three junctions that way. Past lots of speed camera of course which ignored them
because clearly they were not causing a problem!
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owelly
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| posted on 25/10/15 at 11:17 AM |
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I was too easy for me to get embroiled in what other folks were doing but it didn't mean my case was justified! The recovery truck that came to
impound my Omega had an A-frame onboard and the driver said they use it all the time for moving cars around.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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ALLAN 14
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| posted on 25/10/15 at 12:02 PM |
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A Frames
My sympathy.
I think that your best bet is to raise this contradiction with your MP and get them to raise the matter with the Minister of Transport for
clarification.
Best of luck in the future
Allan
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owelly
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| posted on 25/10/15 at 12:30 PM |
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My MP is Robert Goodwill who just happens to be Parliamentary Under Secretary at the Department for Transport and it was him who wrote to me to
clarify what my interpretation of the DoT Factsheet actually meant. He also got the DoT and DVLA to write to me to confirm my interpretations........
They were all wrong.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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