ChrisW
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 10:54 AM |
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Definitive Ford gearbox info
Hi Everyone
Looking for some Ford gearbox advice for a mate. He wants to swap an Essex for a Scorpio Cosworth V6. It's actually in a Land Rover with a
conversion plate between the LR bell housing and the engine.
As far as I was aware, pretty much all Ford engines up to the introduction of the Mazda stuff (ie Duratec era and later) have the same gearbox bolt
pattern. The only difference I was aware of was that the Cologne-based V6's had longer bell housings and input shafts.
Based on that I told him that his existing gearbox should be ok but we might have to make a spacer to make the overall length longer.
However I now have two opinions contrary to what I believed:
First, the guy who manufactures the plate claims that the bolt pattern is different and that his plate won't fit the Cologne engine.
I then asked another mate who has had loads of Capris and he thinks the Essex and Cologne have the same pattern but that pattern different from the
4-pot engines eg Pinto, Zetec, etc. Obviously that works for what we want but it's still different to what I believed.
So, the million dollar question: does anyone know for sure what the differences are (if any) between bolt pattern on the Essex, Cologne and
Pinto/Zetec/etc?
Please no debate on whether the engine swap is sensible - we've heard all the 'Essex has more low torque' arguments already.
Let's keep this on the topic of gearboxes! 
Cheers, Chris
My gaff my rules
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Andy D
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 11:02 AM |
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When I was looking for dimensions I found these drawings quite helpful:
http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17647
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r1_pete
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 11:21 AM |
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Many years ago I fitted a Cologne engine in a Mk1 2.0 V4 Capri, the V4 and V6 Essex had the same bellhousing pattern, the blocks were identical one
just 2 pots shorter, but the Cologne was different, I had to use the bellhousing from a Mk2 Granada V6 4 speed, onto the Capri's type 5 box.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 11:30 AM |
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http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-category/transmission-clutch-wheels/bell-housings.html
acording to Burton they are different,i seem to remember the 2 top bolts were closer together on the koln engines.
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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kingster996
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 11:32 AM |
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I'm busy replacing my type 9 from a 2.0 Sierra with one from a 2.8 V6.
They will both bolt to the bellhousing I have from the Pinto.
The main difference between V6 and IL 4 versions are the ratios, input shaft and bearings - but they both use the same bolt pattern where then mate to
the bellhousing.
As the V6 has a different arrangement for the layshaft bearing, it has a small cover plate that protrudes into the bellhousing so that needs to be
addressed. You can do this in two ways, either have the V6 made with a short input shaft and mod the bellhousing to accommodate the protrusion - or
keep the long input shaft and fit a spacer between the box and the Pinto type bellhousing.
The bellhousing from the V6 will probably not fit a Zetec/Pinto bolt pattern - although I cannot say this for sure - it's more an educated
guess!
So if you are using the Zetec/Pinto bolt pattern on the adapter plate, you will in all probability need to either use a shorter input shaft (as I have
on mine) or a spacer plate as mentioned above.
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 02:13 PM |
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Up to the introduction of the all alloy fiesta engine (commonly called the Zetec Se or Sigma) and the Mazda based engine (4 and V6) there were
basically only 3 different bellhousing to engine bolt patterns:
4 cylinder (includes x-flow, pinto, Zetec and their derivatives)
V Essex (includes V6 and V4)
V Cologne (includes V6 and V4)
None of the above are interchangeable.
During this period Ford used many different gearboxes, some with fixed and some with interchangeable bellhousings.
Forgetting the fixed types:
Type 3 Normally fitted to 4 cylinder cars
Type 5 Normally fitted to Essex V6 cars
Type E (also known as Rocket Box) Fitted to 4 cylinder, Essex and Cologne engines.
Type 9 (commonly used 5 speed box) Fitted to 4 cylinder and Cologne engines.
As far as I know only the bellhousings from Type E and Type 9 boxes are interchangeable.
Hope that helps.
V6 boxes use a longer input shaft. To use them in a 4 cylinder car its simple to fit a 30mm spacer between the box 4 cylinder and bellhousing. I have
a Caterham one in my car but others have been made. I also have a 4 cylinder alloy bellhousing with the spacer cast in, will get round to fitting it
one day.
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snapper
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 02:32 PM |
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The inline 4 engines from Crossflow to Zetec bell housing bolt patterns are the same
The V6 Essex & Cologne engines have the same bell housing bolt pattern but these are different to inline 4
The type 9 gearbox to bell housing are the Same for both
The Type 9 gearbox has a shorter input shaft for the straight 4 than the V6
You can use a spacer to fit a V6 box to an inline engine
The V6 Cosworth engine would be better with an MT75 box as they are stronger but you will need a 3.6 Diff or higher
The V6 Type 9 V6 box with the larger lay shaft bearing is the best compromise of ratios and strength
[Edited on 21/12/15 by snapper]
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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snapper
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 02:34 PM |
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I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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snapper
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 02:35 PM |
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http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx141/snapperpaul/A934A12A-24DB-423A-8195-35AE0D9104A6-1535-000001421D89B24D.jpg
[Edited on 21/12/15 by snapper]
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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ChrisW
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| posted on 21/12/15 at 08:47 PM |
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Thanks everyone! Sounds like a new adapter plate is needed.
Chris
My gaff my rules
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scimjim
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| posted on 24/12/15 at 11:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
The inline 4 engines from Crossflow to Zetec bell housing bolt patterns are the same
The V6 Essex & Cologne engines have the same bell housing bolt pattern but these are different to inline 4
The type 9 gearbox to bell housing are the Same for both
The Type 9 gearbox has a shorter input shaft for the straight 4 than the V6
You can use a spacer to fit a V6 box to an inline engine
The V6 Cosworth engine would be better with an MT75 box as they are stronger but you will need a 3.6 Diff or higher
The V6 Type 9 V6 box with the larger lay shaft bearing is the best compromise of ratios and strength
[Edited on 21/12/15 by snapper]
Essex and Cologne do not share Bellhousing bolt patterns.
There's no such thing as a "V6 type 9" - the 2.3 type 9 is different to the 2.8 type 9 (the 2.3 has the long input shaft but the 4
pot petrol ratios with 18 teeth).
[Edited on 24/12/15 by scimjim]
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alfas
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| posted on 25/12/15 at 07:30 AM |
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"Essex and Cologne do not share Bellhousing bolt patterns. "
i can confrirm that, too!!
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