NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 05:19 PM |
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Caterham Vauxhall Sump
Don't really know what answer I'm hoping for here, but I have bought a Caterham Vauxhall Wet Sump pretty cheaply, in perfect condition,
but less pickup pipe.
It was cheap enough that I have abandoned the idea of modifying a steel sump now!
My worry is how shallow it is! I have seen them run on caterhams at curborough on cars with slicks, but the depth of oil in the sump cannot be more
than 30mm max! That's with the foam baffle taking up some volume too! I'm just worried that the oil volume is so low! Anybody else running
a Vauxhall 16v XE with a Caterham wet sump?
Next thing, I am within a few mm of getting the engine under the bonnet of my Stuart Taylor 7 without a bonnet bulge (which is what I would prefer).
How far below the chassis do folks on here run their sumps? I know in "the book" 1 inch below the chassis was used. I will need to be
35-40mm below the chassis at the lowest point (the sump is heavily ribbed and slopes up at the "leading end"
I have been working on the "Caterham did it so it must be ok" idea but I am just worried about oil surge! (and ground clearance)
Any advice/criticism gratefully received!!
[Edited on 15/12/04 by NS Dev]
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Mr G
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 05:45 PM |
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On billy's with the timing belt cover removed the raised lip is level with the nosecone - bonnet clears top of engine ok.
 
modified sump
Sump is original vauxhall item shallowed and gullwinged. Its below the chassis at the same level as the carlton gearbox is at so even if it was
higher the bottom of the gearbox still protrudes down to this level.
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PioneerX
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 05:53 PM |
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Mr G,
What the ground clearence on that, it's diffcult to judge from the photo. I have the Vx 8v with Carlton gearbox too and I have managed a 4inch
clearance, but that is with the taller luego bodywork 
Regards
Simon
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Mr G
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:00 PM |
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The front of the kit needs lowering as its a little high at the moment but with it protruding that much there has been no trouble with speed bumps etc
(and we've been over a fair few biggies)
I'd say thats about 60mm.
The engine mounts are proper westfield 16v items but instead of the rubber engine bushes sitting on plates on the chassis rails the plates are on the
bottom of the chassis with the rubber mounts sat between the rails on them (if you get my drift)
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:11 PM |
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I do get your drift on the engine mounts.
You mean the sump is 60mm below the bottom of the chassis rails I presume?
Interesting as you may have answered my engine mount question too! On your mounts do the rubber bushes sit flatways on then, with the mount flat on
top of them and then going over to the engine block. Are the bushes round rubber ones with a stud both sides? if so then I'm ok, this is how I
have done mine but I was wondering why nearly all rwd cars have the mounts in a "v shape"!!
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PioneerX
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:11 PM |
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Great to here thats about 60mm and no speed hump problems as I was getting a little worried about my bellhousing clearance. Thanks for setting my mind
at ease.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:14 PM |
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Yes, that is good, my bonnet will just about clear at 40mm sump to chassis difference so no probs! Just the sump depth worry now re. oil surge, but
surely Caterham knew what they were doing??????????????
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 07:00 PM |
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Any views on the oil level issue?
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Stu16v
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Yes, that is good, my bonnet will just about clear at 40mm sump to chassis difference so no probs! Just the sump depth worry now re. oil surge, but
surely Caterham knew what they were doing??????????????
Mmm. The Caterham sump doesn't seem to be very well liked by those that use/have used them. The main reason being the foam breaks up and blocks
up the pickup strainer, unless you change the foam on every oilchange...
Big PITA...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:15 PM |
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Ok, now I've been 5h1t up again! There are a lot of Caterhams out there running this though, on both Vauxhall and Rover K series engines. I have
heard the horror stories too but Caterham still specify 12,000 mile intervals (I certainly don't mind changing it every 3000 if needs be, the
foam is less than £10 from Caterham)
I don't want to dispute something I know nowt about, but surely Caterham have too much of a reputation to take risks with this one!?? (I
hope!)
[Edited on 15/12/04 by NS Dev]
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Stu16v
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:43 PM |
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Here - I think I recognise that name...
and
here
and
Interesting one here - about the sump foam...
Just a few threads i found on a quick search, but interesting reading.
HTH Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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ned
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 02:25 PM |
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Have you taken the timing belt cover off your engine? there are arguements for and against running without it, but you can then take the flange off
the front of the rocker cover which will gain you another 1/2-3/4" in clearnance...
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 05:26 PM |
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I am toying with that idea too. Certainly I know of a lot of people running this engine in gravel rally cars without a cover, which sounds dangerous
to me but they say not?????????!!!!!!!!!!
I think, having heard the ground clearnace comments and talk of the sump being 60mm below the chassis, that I won't have to cut the cover down.
I can clear the bonnet with about 40-45mm of sump below the chassis (it is a LOT shallower than the Westy sump! and a lot stronger too, just
doesn't hold much oil!!!!)
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Mr G
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 05:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
I do get your drift on the engine mounts.
You mean the sump is 60mm below the bottom of the chassis rails I presume?
Interesting as you may have answered my engine mount question too! On your mounts do the rubber bushes sit flatways on then, with the mount flat on
top of them and then going over to the engine block. Are the bushes round rubber ones with a stud both sides? if so then I'm ok, this is how I
have done mine but I was wondering why nearly all rwd cars have the mounts in a "v shape"!!
Yes 60mm below the bottom of the chassis rails.
Bushes are the round type originally sold by Ron C for a pinto install. They sit flat and then the mount sits ontop going off diagonally to pick up on
the engine. All as you described.
HTH
Cheers
G
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Northy
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 06:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Stu16v
Here - I think I recognise that name...
HTH Stu.
Yeah, thats me! 
I have to overfill my VX 8 valve to prevent oil surge (I was getting it under breaking).
TBH I'm thinking of taking off the ali sump and replacing it with a baffled steel one. I never have liked the idea of the foam baffle, and
I'm worried about hitting anything at speed with the sump. I saw a picture of one that hit a loose cats eye and nearly split it in two! 
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 12:30 AM |
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Northy, have you done anything about changing away from the caterham sump yet??
I am going to use mine until I can come across a dry sump pump at the right price, and at that point I will get a nice steel dry sump pan tigged up
and do a DIY dry sump setup. This will be a while yet though, for the mo I am going to get new foam from Caterham and use this with the sump I
have.
Ground clearance is a bit limited but there we go, hey ho, there are plenty of people on here with less and no disasters so lets hope!
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ned
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 09:38 AM |
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NSdev,
I have a qed twin scavenge dry sump pan kicking about if you're interested...
Is it not possible just to tig some baffles into the caterham sump and remove the foam? It can't be much different to the westfield sump which
has a baffle plate in, can this not just be copied?
NEd.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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nige
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 10:28 AM |
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xe sump
i was reading some threads on westy site
and it seems they all over fill by between
10--20 mm to stop oil surge and froth
when you start this journey
you think it will be done in " no " time but then " no " turns into a " bloody " long time
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 12:18 PM |
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Ned, the Caterham sump is much shallower than the Westy one. The bottom of the sump is only around 40mm below the crank!!!!!!!
I can't actually go any lower because the flywheel will be the lowest part of the car if I do! The ST bodywork is very compact, quite a bit
smaller than a westy, hence the tricky fitting. When I move it forward, my engine will be a fair bit further forward than yours, basically front face
of the gearbox level with the rear face of the footwell tubes.
Does this sound too far forward?
I wouldn't trust normal baffles to control such a shallow layer of oil in the caterham sump
[Edited on 18/1/05 by NS Dev]
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ned
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 01:04 PM |
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i didn't think the westy sump was any deeper than the caterham one. I think i'll stick with it and go for a dry sump when funds allow.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 04:18 PM |
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Yes, I have looked and compared both now, the caterham one is shallower (a few mm lower than the flywheel at the back end, then tapering shollower
towards the front)
I would stick with the one you have as long as you can get the engine under the bodywork, I am not so keen on the Caterham one!
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Northy
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 07:07 PM |
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Hi NSDev,
I've not done anything yet as the car is still taxed till the end of the month, then I'll take it off the road.
I'm thinking of just replacing the Chaterham sump with a diy steel one. I will be able to make it hold a little more oil than the Chaterham one,
as the Chaterham one has the "fins" on (I know they're only a few mm) and put "wings" on it. I also don't like
the thought of hitting a stone with an ali sump, as I saw a picture of one that had nearly split into two! Have you got anymore details on teh DIY
dry sump?
Ned, do you have any pictures of the Westy baffles? Would be helpful to see what they did on such a shallow sump.
I'm also going to remote fit the oil filter, as its the lowest point at the front!
Cheers
[Edited on 18/1/05 by Northy]
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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skippad
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 09:48 PM |
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I've had a Yukspeed winged metal sump on mine for nearly 2 yrs without any problems.
I havnt experienced any oil surge problems on the trackdays been to.
On this sump the oil pick up point sits in its own compartment so it doesnt seem to be affected by high cornering/braking forces
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Northy
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 09:52 PM |
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Any pictures Skippad?
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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skippad
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| posted on 18/1/05 at 09:57 PM |
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I'll get a picture of sump on car but obviously not the inside!
If u nip over to Barton Hill, yuk might have one on the shelf for you to look at.
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