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Author: Subject: Insuring and taxing second-hand car
SteveWalker

posted on 17/7/16 at 07:38 PM Reply With Quote
Insuring and taxing second-hand car

I am likely to be buying an second-hand car in a private sale in the next week or so. When I do, I can phone my insurance company while I am there and get it covered. I can go online on my phone to tax it - I would use a phonecall, but for some stupid reason the DVLA don't allow you to set up a direct debit on the phone, so you must do it online.

This may all be taking place many hours drive away, so I will not be going to see the car one day and then returning to pick it up a week later. I need to do it all there and then. I can't make insurance arrangements beforehand, in case the sale doesn't go ahead.

The question is, how rapidly can I do this? I have heard that it can take some insurers days to update the insurance database, so if I tax it there and then, how can I tax it to drive home when it might not show as being insured in my name? Unless I am missing something, the new system of cancelling the tax at point of sale, leaves a big problem, unless insurers can be guaranteed to update the database pretty well instantly.

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ian locostzx9rc2

posted on 17/7/16 at 07:45 PM Reply With Quote
If the cars taxed as present you can drive it home and tax it later that day there will not be an issue .
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Slimy38

posted on 17/7/16 at 07:52 PM Reply With Quote
Most sellers are sympathetic to the tax rules and won't declare it the moment it's sold. The last car I sold I didn't do the tax for a few days. The DVLA still got their double month of tax.
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Dick

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:00 PM Reply With Quote
The MID motor ins database can take a few hours to do and if your doing it over an evening the chance of it being on the system the same day are very low. So you wont be able to tax the car at the same point. As you have said once the car is sold it has no tax , the owner of the vehicle is the only one than can tax it so in short once you fill the log book in the old tax is void. The thing is the bib are not as thick as people think, get a receipt showing what time and when you brought they car, if stopped just talk to them and explain the way the system fails to allow you to tax a car. You need to tax the car as soon as you can i:e the next day you should be ok. Don't leave it till the end of the month and try to gain it. To many cameras around now days.
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SteveWalker

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:17 PM Reply With Quote
As I thought.

It does seem rather stupid that the database isn't automatically updated in real-time though - how hard could that be, when all it requires is one computer to talk to another?!

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CosKev3

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:20 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
If the cars taxed as present you can drive it home and tax it later that day there will not be an issue .


There will be if you have an accident or are pulled over for something else which leads to the police finding out you have bought the car.

The word of the law on tax now is simple,as soon as you buy the car the tax on the car is invalid.

The system is crap,and I don't agree with it,but that's the way it is now

I risked driving a car 8 mlies with no tax,got pulled over for a dodgy number plate, car was seized.
Ended up costing me just over 700 in total.

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mark chandler

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:25 PM Reply With Quote
Taxed my car on-line when I picked it up using my phone.
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snapper

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:32 PM Reply With Quote
I had this on an eBay purchase, did the whole insurance tax thing and did not buy, nightmare
Road tax stops on sale so you can't drive until you pay
Insurance is easier but still cost
If I do it again I will buy it then do tax and insurance TBH (that's... To Be Honest) insurance is key and tax is backdated to the first of the month, so talk with insurers and dint forget the tax when you get home





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turbodisplay

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:32 PM Reply With Quote
When I bought mine I took a printout of the insurance and V5 to the post office and got the car taxed.
Went okay apart from the woman behind the counter expecting me to fill out the wrong form, got half way through filling it in when i realised she had screwed up.
Should not require any form filling.

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blakep82

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:46 PM Reply With Quote
When you tax it's instance (do it online on your mobile phone) if it's not on the database, the coppers can phone
When you insure it may not go on the database instantly, but the rozzers can phone the insurance company





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chillis

posted on 17/7/16 at 08:57 PM Reply With Quote
Insurance is the key issue - talk to your insurer to explain the situation, mine emailed me a covernote within a few minutes, then if you're pulled by plod you can show the cover note email, Tax is online as soon as you get home. Cover will be from 1st of the month you buy the car in. So technically plod can't pull you for that.





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CosKev3

posted on 18/7/16 at 07:01 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chillisl, Tax is online as soon as you get home. .


IF you want to gamble with getting you're car seized that's fine.

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nick205

posted on 18/7/16 at 08:05 AM Reply With Quote
Recently bought SWMBO a 2nd hand car an hour from home. Drove it home then sorted the tax online. Taking a chance...maybe, but I didn't see another way of being sure before doing the tax.






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pekwah1

posted on 18/7/16 at 11:56 AM Reply With Quote
Again to echo other comments, if you buy a car, the current owner's tax technically becomes invalid at that point, and you are required to tax the car BEFORE driving on public highway.

This is easily done online assuming you have the new owner's slip off the V5.

When i'm planning to buy a car, i usually phone the insurance in advance and run through the quote etc which they save, then it's just a quick phone call if you buy to put in place.

If that's not practical for any reason, i've used the "day insurance" quite a few times which is around 30 quid a go.

Personally i wouldn't drive a car on the road without insurance.
Tax - well likely hood of getting caught is slim, but if you are pulled for any particular reason, you are likely to get fined, saying "i was gonna do it at home later" doesn't really cut it - could you do the same for insurance after you've just crashed it on the way home?

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morcus

posted on 18/7/16 at 06:16 PM Reply With Quote
Its not what you want to hear but your best option with regard to tax and insurance is to not pick the car up the same day (And is probably what any police or DVLA advice will say) or to recover the car on a truck.

You don't know what might happen on the way home in a used car, I've had a car break down on the way home from picking it up before (A lot of breakdown cover isn't valid for 24 hours).

It depends on the type of car and how much you are spending but by going only once and driving home if you decide to buy you are taking a massive gamble and probably wagering a lot more than you would spend if you planned to view then come back later.





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SteveWalker

posted on 18/7/16 at 06:42 PM Reply With Quote
Insurance I am not worried about. As I say, I can do that on the spot, over the phone. I just think it is ridiculous that legally at the moment of sale, the tax lapses, and it is quite likely that I will not be able to tax it until the next day. At likely a day to get there and back, I do not want to be making multiple trips. One trip, inspect and test drive, pay, insure, tax and home again.

Why on earth the insurance companies aren't required to update the database in real-time, I do not know. It's only needs one computer talking to another, so why the delays? There is no delay in entering your information onto their computer, often emailing you a cover note immediately and taking your money. What else do they have to do at that point to pass the data they have just gathered on to the database?

As to driving a "new" vehicle and breakdown cover. With cover on the driver rather than the car - useful anyway with multiple cars in the household and ocassional driving of other people's cars - I'd be covered immediately. Normally when picking up a car, I'd get taken there by car anyway and travel back together - handy backup I suppose.

[Edited on 18/7/16 by SteveWalker]

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ken555

posted on 18/7/16 at 06:52 PM Reply With Quote
If you have breakdown cover, why not just make it undrivable, unplug a sensor or something.
Then get them to trailer/recover it home for you ?






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Matt21

posted on 19/7/16 at 04:49 PM Reply With Quote
I did this with a car I bought last week.

I did an insurance quote the night before, then when I bought the car I just went onto the website on my phone and purchased it (thankfully I could do it all online and didnt need to ring them)
Then went on the gov website and taxed it using the green slip via direct debit.

Took all of 10minutes, if that!

You can arrange insurance and tell them you'll call them the next day if you want to go ahead with it.





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SteveWalker

posted on 20/7/16 at 10:06 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt21
I did this with a car I bought last week.

I did an insurance quote the night before, then when I bought the car I just went onto the website on my phone and purchased it (thankfully I could do it all online and didnt need to ring them)
Then went on the gov website and taxed it using the green slip via direct debit.

Took all of 10minutes, if that!

You can arrange insurance and tell them you'll call them the next day if you want to go ahead with it.


As I've said, it is not arranging the insurance that is the problem, it is the fact that having travelling 200 miles to view a car, if I like it, I can pay instantly online, I can arrange insurance immediately on the phone. Having arranged the insurance, it may appear straight away on the insurance database (which it obviously did for you as you taxed in a few minutes later), but it can take up to five days to appear on the database - making it impossible for you to tax it so as to drive home there and then!

Anyway, my problem is now solved, as I decided not to travel so far and to go for another car only an hour's drive away. At that distance, it was fine to see and test drive it today and then pick it up on Friday.

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coyoteboy

posted on 21/7/16 at 07:14 AM Reply With Quote
Just out of mental exercise, assuming the previous owner doesn't jump online and detax it that moment, there's no issue. Tax remains on the car, you get insurance online, police may stop you and check by phone about the insurance but while the tax officially might end at point of sale, they're not stupid and won't complain that you're driving it home to tax.
Plus the reality is I've never had insurance not appear on the MID site instantly.





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SCAR

posted on 21/7/16 at 07:33 PM Reply With Quote
DVLA can't cancel the tax until they receive the v5 in the post notifying a sale (assuming it was still taxed before the sale) so a newly sold car should show up on police accessed data as still being taxed for a couple of days after sale.
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Matt21

posted on 22/7/16 at 09:36 AM Reply With Quote
Even if it isn't on the database, you get an email confirmation straight away saying that you have taxed it.
If the police stop you they wont do you for no tax until they have confirmed it with the dvla, which will show up that you have just taxed it





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dinosaurjuice

posted on 22/7/16 at 09:43 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by Matt21
I did this with a car I bought last week.

I did an insurance quote the night before, then when I bought the car I just went onto the website on my phone and purchased it (thankfully I could do it all online and didnt need to ring them)
Then went on the gov website and taxed it using the green slip via direct debit.

Took all of 10minutes, if that!

You can arrange insurance and tell them you'll call them the next day if you want to go ahead with it.


As I've said, it is not arranging the insurance that is the problem, it is the fact that having travelling 200 miles to view a car, if I like it, I can pay instantly online, I can arrange insurance immediately on the phone. Having arranged the insurance, it may appear straight away on the insurance database (which it obviously did for you as you taxed in a few minutes later), but it can take up to five days to appear on the database - making it impossible for you to tax it so as to drive home there and then!

Anyway, my problem is now solved, as I decided not to travel so far and to go for another car only an hour's drive away. At that distance, it was fine to see and test drive it today and then pick it up on Friday.


You can tax a car without proof of insurance using the V5 new keeper section. I've done this a few times with buying & selling vehicles, and to be fair the whole system works great now. Only downside is the double tax month loss.

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CosKev3

posted on 22/7/16 at 10:58 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Tax remains on the car, you get insurance online, police may stop you and check by phone about the insurance but while the tax officially might end at point of sale, they're not stupid and won't complain that you're driving it home to tax.



You reckon?

I don't think many police officers would let you off IMO.

As I've said earlier,I risked driving 8 miles without tax and it cost me just over 700 in total,car seized at the road side etc.

If your willing to gamble fairdos,but I know I won't again

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coyoteboy

posted on 22/7/16 at 12:18 PM Reply With Quote
Depends on the situation - if you're without tax because you just haven't taxed it - it's kinda tough, though I know of several people who've driven about without tax for weeks and only been fined 80. If you have this sort of situation I've never had a copper be unreasonable - most of the time they will give you the opportunity to do it there and then if you don't mouth off at them, I guess sometimes you get a jobsworth. It's easy to tax online and insure online, even if just for a day. There's nothing stopping anyone buying a second hand car "correctly".





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